We dive deep into Jennifer’s Body (2009), the cult horror comedy written by Diablo Cody and directed by Karyn Kusama. Joined by returning guest Jessica Kwazz, we unpack the movie’s disastrous marketing campaign, feminist themes, Megan Fox’s underrated performance, horror-comedy brilliance, and why the film has become one of the most reappraised cult classics of the 2000s.
This week on Never Seen It, we finally sink our teeth into Jennifer’s Body (2009) — the horror cult classic that went from misunderstood box office flop to one of the most beloved feminist horror movies of the modern era.
Joined once again by returning guest Jessica Kwazz, we explore how the film’s marketing completely failed the movie, why Megan Fox deserved far more credit for her performance, and how Diablo Cody’s screenplay cleverly balances horror, comedy, satire, and social commentary.
We discuss:
We also compare the film’s legacy to other misunderstood cult classics like Fight Club, Blade Runner, The Big Lebowski, and Speed Racer while reflecting on how audiences and critics have reevaluated Jennifer’s Body over time.
If you grew up in the late 2000s, loved horror movies, survived the emo era, or completely misunderstood this movie the first time around — this episode is for you.
Spoilers throughout.
Listen now and join the discussion.
Welcome to the Never Seenet Podcast.
The only podcast called Never Seen It That's worth listening to With us
tonight, Mr. Arnie, The One Man Party is here, Arnoldo, Mr. Daily Dares, aka.
Filipino Grigio, aka.
Alexo, the Brothers.
Mr. Donnie Appleseed, aka Donnie Guzman, the Cousins Guman,
Mr. Ghoster 88, aka Justin Holden, Mr. Milk Man.
America
Chris is here.
Of course, the return special guest.
Second time running.
One more.
She gets a set of steak knives.
Welcome back, Jessica K, to the show.
And then there's me, Boots too Big, A, aka.
Adrian Deat Torre.
Did I miss somebody I feel like you're about to say something, Alex, that I don't think I missed anybody, did I?
My buddy John
Yeah.
John is here.
He's Donald..
Lower frame.
No, I said Donnie.
Oh, didn't?
Donnie Applessteene?
Yeah.
Oh my..
I said, no, don't screw me up.
Oh, okay.
Sorry.ding.
It's all good.
And the film were discing discussing tonight is the 2009
Jennifer's Body, directed by Karen Casama,
starring Megan Fox, Amanda Seyfried, Johnny Simmons, Adam Brody,
J.K. Simmons, who was a pleasant surprise. didn't have much to do, but he was in there.
And one of my favorite comedians, Amy Sedaris,
in a very tiny role, but I was pleasantly surprised to see Amy Sedaris.
We're going to watch the trailer because the marketing
for this movie is very relevant to the discussion, I think.
So let's do that really quick
All right.
Well, there you go.
There you have it.
That's the trailer for Jennifer's Body.
You know, it stars Megan Fox, but let's be real.
The real star of of the story is Amanda Siegfried's
character, Needy. which is also an interesting name, I think.
But Jessica, you chose this movie.
We talked about it last time we recorded when we did our episode on Speed Racer
Tell us, why did you choose Jennifer's body?
Well, it actually came up organically in
our last conversation with Speed Racer, because we were talking about how
they didn't know how to market Speed Racer.
And I said, like, you, yeah, that was sort of a common thing back
around the early 2000s where they didn't know how to market movies.
And like the perfect example of that is Jennifer's body.
And then you said you hadn't seen it because of how it was marketed.
So it was like the perfect se to have this be the next movie.
So thank you guys again for having me.
Like, I'm so excited to talk about it.
And I'm glad it just kind of like came up that way.
But yeah, gosh, watching the trailer just now, like,
it's still so ridiculous to me.
Like, I'm giggling at it because of how stupid it is.
It, like..
Like, it just takes every,
like, sexual moment from that movie and throws it
in your face of like, see, don't you want to see this?
And it just downplays how, like, smart of a movie it actually is
And so I'm really glad to be discussing it because it's so much
more than what the trailer or any sort of marketing made it seem.
And fun fact, I was looking a little details
into the marketing earlier today, and I learned
that 20th century Fox actually wanted Megan Fox to
do a live stream on a porn site as a way to mark market the movie
And the director, Kiri Karisama,
told, it was an all-male marketing team, by the way.
They were wanting to market this two men,
even though it's a very like female audience type of movie
I guess they just thought with like our little woman brains, we wouldn't get it.
So they wanted her to do like a live stream on a porn site
and the director just said to them, like, don't even ask
Megan because that is so disrespectful and she'll be so upset to hear that.
Like, absolutely not.
So yeah, I just, it's such a brilliantiant movie.
It's so unique.
It's so different.
And they just were like, I don't know.
We'll just make it sexy, I guess.
Like, that'll get people to see it.
That's marketing people for you.
It's always some marketing NBA
who gets paid more than six figures to come up with shit like this.
There's a lot of movies that are like that, right?
Like Fight Club is another good example where they had like a $63
million budget and they only barely made $100 million when they was released in the theaters.
And it wasn't until later where physical media was released when they became like a cult classic
So other movies that are big that that weren't
really big at the time when it released was like Blade burner.
Big Lebowski was another one.
Yeah.
Charlie in the Chocolate Factory.
So there's a lot of them that where they just fail on the marketing side of it.
Yeah.
For so many different reasons, because marketers aren't
storytellers and storytellers unfortunately aren't marketers, you know.
I think that's why Chris Nolan has like a hand in every aspect of his movies from beginning to end.
Like, he has a hand even on the marketing side of things because he knows,
like, I need to control the narrative both on the screen and off the screen, right?
Like, like that's how much of a, and I hate to say this word, but for lack
of a better word, auteur he is, I think.
Alex, you had something?
Yeah.
So there was an interview with that happened on Entertainment Tonight a few years ago
between Cody, Diablo.
Oh, Diablo Cody, sorry.
And Megan Fox.
They were kind of talking about how this was sort of also,
like there's there's a very similar aspect to how
she felt about her career in Hollywood, how Megan Fox thought
that it was this sort of like male Gazy sort of like thing
where they wanted to control everything about like who she
was, who, what she wanted, they wanted her to be as
far as an actress in Hollywood.
And it goes into the marketing, right there?
she was they marketed this film to men.
At the end of the day, it kind of bit them in the ass the way it marketing it, as
we all talk about it, we're going to talk about right now, is Siske and Ebert,
when they did their review of that, one of them
felt it was a good movie, but then he also still felt for
the trap of like the whole male andey sort of thing, kind
of gave it a lower score, but then obviously now
we look back on it and it's it's like this like really amazingly
well done p classic of telling of feminism.
No, I agree.
This movie grossed only 31.6 million worldwide on a budget of $16 million.
So it was a financial flop.
And I dare say the marketing had something to do with that.
Chris, you had something?
Yeah, well,
first off, it made me really sad to see that track trailer because
of how much I miss that nostalgic trailer voice
of like, coming to you this summer.
Like there's just something I really like find endearing about that type of..
Reg regardless of like how they did,
like the accuracy of that trailer and all that.
I just really like that.
I don't know if that was Don La Fontaine in this trailer, but Don La Fontaine is like a famous trailer voice.
He's deceased now, but I mean, any movie
pre- early 2000s would have had his voice.
There's also like four other dudes that are still gone, I
want Arnold voicing trailers the these days.
I would actually love that.
I would love to hear Arnold voicing trailers.
I love train I thought they were representing.
Sorry.
Jessica.
Yeah, also, just on the note of
marketing again, it is so silly that they decided
to market this to men because it's
a female-led horror film that's directed
by a female radio. by a female and has two
females, a villain, female, and a protagonist female.
Like that's so rare in horror movies.
So I don't understand why they wouldn't like get to that
audience, why they wouldn't want to market it to women because it's for the girls.
Like it's mostly for the girls.
I agree.
And I love the line in the trailer and in the mouge where she's like, I'm not killing people.
I'm killing boys.
Like, that's such a, there's so many good, witty lines throughout this whole movie.
I don't think the line that she does in the trailer where she's like, you can barely finish gym class.
That wasn't in the movie, was it?
I don't remember that. in the movie.
No, I think that's just like in the extended cut.
Yeah.
It was like an unrated director's cut that came out.
Oh, is it?
Okay.
Oh, there is?
I can't believe they actually wanted Megan
Foxlock to scream on an adult site.
That's wow.
I know.
Not shocking, though.
I guess when you have an all- male marketing team, I guess that's like, boy, the least shocking thing.
They were doing it for themselves.
They were trying to see how far they could get.
Yeah.
and we all know now how like how
trash it was like after like the Harvey Weinstein shit went down.
That certainly did not help.
I read something recently that that like apparently people
are still trying to get her to, like recently
I read something that they're trying to get her to go on OnlyFans.
Um, but then she said, was like, no, never.
I don't think I will.
I just can't do it.
That's always the move, right?
And the thing is, like, um, even that's saturated at this point.
I think I read some statistics somewhere that said that
the average OnlyFans person only earns like less than a few hundred bucks a month or something like that.
I don't know.
Oh.
Don't ask me more I read this.
I. I got them on here.
so they're on the chat as well.
Oh, Jessica, this is a secret chat that Arnold has, but I don't think he talked about this last time.
He has a secret chat chat.
No, thank you. for that.
But I wanted to talk about, yeah, I wanted to talk about the writing because the writing is really strong.
You know, Diablo Cody wrote Juno, which is a great movie.
I don't know if you guys have ever ever seen Juno, anybody I've seen it.
That was it Ellen Elliot Page.
It was Ellen Page at the time.
Good movie.
She like, yeah, I feel like she's of gotten done dirty a little bit by Hollywood in a sense.
especially after the way this movie was marketed.
And that's why I didn't watch it because at the time, this would have been 2009.
I was like, oh, this just looks like male Gazey schlock.
Like, I'm not going to watch that movie.
And it turned out to be more than that, Alex.
If you think about it, the reason why it failed is because
it was kind of one of those things where at the
time, Hollywood was throwing money, they're just throwing money at anything that they thought was successful, right?
Diablo Cody, having her Juno being her first film,
like, be sober overly successful.
And then they're like, oh, okay, let's see if I could throw more
money at this and like just give her stuff.ead of like letting her her
continue on a path of just like, hey, let's just keep on doing like
cool indie films that you did with like Juno.
And let's like let's like, like how they kind
of do now, you look at like people like Sean Baker
they kind of like still kind of prove themselves along the way.
I mean, that's the unfortunate side of like, what, like to 2000s era of film.
Like there was so much money being thrown around.
You know what they say about Hollywood?
It's either feast or famine.
You know, like, clearly that was during a feast time.
Now we're in a famine time.
There's not even the same landscape anymore.
It's crazy.
Chris, you had something?
Yeah, I just want to like kind of touch on
not only how it was marketed in
the sense of why it caused it to do so poorly at the beginning.
But like, the lasting effects of that marketing,
because, again, coming off Transformers, Megan Fox has obviously become an icon of sorts.
Right.
And they really lean into it because, again, small
guy brain, they're like, just want to market it too.
I think at one point they're like had a group of like 12
to 14 year old boys.
Right.
And wanted to like their feedback on it.
And yeah, that's funny.
And like, just to like touch on how
that sticks with you, like, in my opinion, I
know, I know, a man Amanda was great in this movie, but Megan Fox killed it in this movie.
She She was my favorite part.
Like, she was like I. I know protagonist, but
dear God, her acting chops are actually legitimately good.
I was not expecting that.
I really, I've really only seen her in the Transformers movies.
So I was not expecting the level of like, she's so
good, with comedy.
Like, she knows how to be dark and funny at the same time.
It was great.
Jessica?
Yeah, I think also with the marketing, it
also messed it up for a while with word of mouth because
people who initially went to go see it almost almost felt like they were bamboozled.
Like they saw a different movie than what they expected to go and seeing
and they weren't happy about that.
And so that also had a ripple effect with people being
like, yeah, don't go see this weird movie.
Like, I don't understand.
And also, this was like mentioned before, Diablo
Cody's follow-up to Juno, but she had actually written
this before she wrote Juno.
So this was her being like, this is what I want to do next.
Like, this is my next thing
And I think people also didn't like the
abrupt change from the sort of like, like dramedy,
quirky world that is Juno to this like, like horror comedy vibe.
Like I think it was too much of a change for people.
And then that affected like what Diablo Cody could do in the
future because they sort of just wanted her to copy and past Juno again.
That's so interesting because I thought that was the best turn because I didn't know where this movie was going.
I didn't know that she would turned intoline of a demonic succubus or whatever.
I had no idea where this movie was going.
So when that scene where she comes back to Amanda to
Needy's house and she's going through the fridge and then you see all the blood on her face, I was like, whoa.
And then, and then the turn happened and I was like, oh shit.
And so we're going there now.
And I was like, I'm here for it.
So that's so fascinating that people didn't like, I don't know.
I didn't find it interrupt at all, I guess is what I what I'm getting at.
But yeah, that's an interesting point, Alex.
This movie is so deep and there's so much to get into
that I think it deserves to talk like discussion
about like this is a feminist film and for it to be
marketed to men only, I'm sure that really
rubbed the director and Diablo Cody the wrong way and including
like Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried.
Like to touch on like
one of Jessica's comments earlier in
the show, she said that like Megan Fox was a villain.
And to be quite honest, she wasn't.
The guys who turned her into that were the villains.
She was just a product of what happened to her.
She was assaulted.
It was like in a very egregious misogynist, very horrendous
traumatic assault where she ends up getting killed
And she wasn't a virgin, so she did not
become the sacrifice that those guys thought she would be.
They still got what they wanted, but when
you make deals with the devil, the devil doesn't care about, like raising up humans.
He wants what he wants.
You're going to lose in the end.
That's the problem with like, like, you know, you see a lot of things like,
you know, it's like Faust, the idle hands even.
I never thought we'd have a Faust reference on this show ever.
I mean, it's that's like one of the earlier, like, sort of.
I'm going to bring in Metastopheles, right, Arnold?
What is Faust?
What does Metastopheles?
It's one of the earliest stories of a Deal with the Devil.
Yeah. was like an author.
Think about it like even like that crossroads, that movie
Crossroads where like the guy who he wants to become a really amazing
blues player, but makes a deal with the devil at the crosroad and he becomes this amazing, like..
Arnold, the thing of Faust is like the 16th century version of Stephen King.
Just imagine Stephen King, but like way back in the day.
And Metastopheles was like a story of his.
Sorry, I got a shout out.
My feminist king for bringing up that that's true.
It was the men that villain.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for that, sir.
Yeah.
That's what we do on this show, right?
Justin, you had something?
Just two things.
Two things.
No, you only get one.
I'm just kidding.
No, I'm getting fucking two.
I paid for two.
I'm getting fucking two.
Anyway.
Yeah, he paid on Arnold's only fanans to get two.
That's only between me and Arnold.
First thing, it's an interesting theme that we've covered
a movie about an incubus, and now we're covering a movie by a second succubus.
That's the first thing.
Second thing.
Second because I'm referring to Shelby Oak's episode.
But second thing
the moment Chris Pratt came on screen.
Oh, God.
We were just like, u.
And I'm so glad he died.
I was so out from grace, I didn't he?
Oh, fuck that guy, dude..
He was such a darling in like the early 2010s,
and then he just fell from grace because he joined an Elanta anti-LGBT church and all that.
Well, that was that was the story, right?
He saw that boot and wanted to lick it.
What
What a weird little guy, Chris Pratt.
Donnie, you had something?
Yeah, Alex kind of mentioned it a little bit, but the
whole dynamic between the two women in the film, it
kind of tells the story of Diablo C Cody, right?
It's about her like dark side of her life.
Because she was previously a stripper.
And then that whole assault thing was
supposed to represent or a metaphor for sexual assault. in the dark et cetera.
Yeah, so it's kind of interesting.
She was also raised in an apost apostolistic
Christian home, too. which is
Very interesting.
That's. pasta?
Yeah.
A copy pasta.
You know what the best way best way to raise an atheist?
send him to Catholic school.
And Anthony Gardi will attest to that, by the way, because he went to Catholic school.
Just saying, just saying, uh, Jessica, you had something.
I also went to Catholic school, so I totally feel that.
Totally feel that agnostic early over here.
I also want my favorite
part about the Chris Pratt cameo is
that she, Megan Fox, Jennifer, turns
him away for Adam Brody.
And I love that.
Because yeah, Chris Pratt sucks and I love Adam Brody.
So I love he's hitting on her and she goes, whatever, Chris Pratt, I'm here for Adam Brody.
Yeah.
She really is so funny in this movie.
Was it I wrote down a bunch of notes because I was, I just
couldn't help but write down all the great dialogue.
One line was, I'm not a backdoor version.
Was that Was that Jennifer that's it that or was that needy?
That was Jennifer, right?
I'm not.
I'm not even a backdoor version.
I sat on a bag of peas the whole day the next day.
I was like, what
Yeah, I liked Hello Titty.
That was great.
That was a funny line.
She just stares at the fire.
Who was it?
Oh, yeah.
You know what you know what did what was kind of jarring for me?
That scene in the bar in the beginning, and I was
just like, wow, people are just like watching or
Needy is watching this fire slowly like engulf the building
and she's just staring at it and everyone's just like doing their thing.
She's not like, hey guys, fire, fire, you know, something.
And I'm like, these people don't see
the flames, like engulfing the entire fucking thing?
Okay.
One of the things that did also kind of confound me was
I wasn't sure on how she got
kind of like compelled to go with that.
Jennifer I know that they did like have
her drink that drink, but but how did she get so like mesmerized?
Was it themed drink?
No, no, she didn't even drink those.
You have to remember.
She didn't.
Like, when they escaped out of the bar, Adam
Brody gives her a drink and it's obviously roofied, right?
Oh, yeah But I don't know.
Because remember, she was just like mesmerized and locked into that,
even when the fire was going on, I was wondering, and I was like, is it the song?
Is it like something that's like a prayer that was like trying to like
magically, like seduce her to go with them?
And it just, she just was locked in in this way that like,
that's the one thing that kind of almost threw me off the whole, like, I
don't know if I like this film, but then I got into the rest of it.
I really liked what the movie.
They needed some kind of mechanism to get her under their spell or whatever.
Yeah, and I don't know what that mechanism was.
It's a band
They're delving into already like ritualismistic
satanic practices because their van is filled with satanic paraphernalia.
That's a good point.
But I interpreted it as like a sirens song, almost.
Oh, yeah.
Because that's kind of how succubus and Incubus works.
They lure their praying.
And they probably weren't like outright like
an incubus or anything like that.
But they were
just kind of like the vessel for it more or less.
Right.
So, which is why that whole scene
in the fire, everybody just felt like they weren't reacting properly.
Okay.
They weren'ton.
Because
Jennifer was obviously stuck in it.
She was already like halfway there foot in the the van
already, while Needy was like, she was dazed
in a way, but still had her senses, but was more worried
about like getting her friend and things.
And she already didn't like the guy because she overheard them talking.
That makes sense.
That makes sense That's also true.
Jess?
That was my exact interpretation too, was that there was something
already afoot, occult-wise with this band.
Like, I don't think the sacrifice of Jennifer was like their first
fur way into Satanism.
So I kind of took it as like their music may already
sort of had a spell of some kind under people.
And also Jennifer was a fan of theirs before seeing them live.
So maybe that's why she was like so much more affected than
everyone else at the bar because she was already sort of like under that spell, so to speak.
And you see that more too, like as they blow up, like more people hear them.
Like people are just obsessed with them.
Yeah, you make it makes sense because like, I remember when they were
like, they had that vigil that kind of like vigil and they were like singing the
song and it became like the anthem of the school for these
kids who have passed away in the fire and everything.
Which, by the way, that song slaps.
I really like that song.
Like, it's been stuck in my head all day and' just like, I'm still here.
I really like it.
I'll to add that to the soundtrack of this show at some point.
Speaking on the soundtrack, I thought the soundtrack was very impressive.
I've
seen this movie once before, and this was back when it was new.
I think I rented it.
I didn't remember the soundtrack being such
a cool rock soundtrack.
I had such a different perspective of this movie in the past and revisiting it
I think did this movie justice for sure because
my original opinion in the movie, and it's kind of like what you all talked
about earlier on, was this movie was just kind of dumb.
And I think I had, I had, I had an
immature kind of perspective back in the day but seeing
it now with all the movies I've seen and horror movies
I've definitely have a better appreciation
for this film. and I quite frankly, I really enjoyed everything about it.
I like a lot after the fire, the guy from the
band comes up to Needy and Jennifer and he's like, I've been looking for you everywhere.
And I wrote down like, and like 30 seconds since the fire started, you've been looking for them ever.
Okay.
Yeah, just climbed out and you already has a jacket on, a drink ready
Yeah.
Here, come to my, my totally not sketchy, man.
Alex, I know like the bands on that soundtrack
were like pretty big, and I kind of feel like that might even be a
double-edged sword for that film as well.
Like, I think that at the time of like that era of
soundtracks being more popular than
films that were coming out at the time, if you, like recall, there
were times where like people would make like movies that actually make their money
back because of like it had these like songs.
Like take, for instance, the Joel Schumacher Batman films.
Those films, both of those
their soundtracks did like.
Kiss from a Rose, man.
Yeah, Kiss from song..
But then they had like U2 Throw Me, Kiss Me, Kill
Me, whatever that song is, and then like smashing Pumpkins was on
like one of the soundtracks and then R.
Kelly was on all the soundtracks.
Donny, you had something.
The movie's named after a song from the band Hole, according
to Love's band, Jennifer's Body.
But they're not on the soundtrack, so I thought that was kind of interesting, but they named it after that, or she named it after this.
Was that band supposed to be?
Because this is the early 2000s Well, this is the letter, end of the early 2000s.
Were they supposed to be in an emo band, a scene kids?
Was that what the vibe I was going to kid, emo sort of.
Okay.
Am I using that interchangeably correctly?
Emo and Senk or were those two different friends?
subcultures back then?
I don't even remember if I'm being honest.
They were two different.
Two different.
Two different things.
They were kind of like adjacent.
There overlap.
There was an overlap.
There was a vent diagram overlap., but like, I think I
would say the band was more emo than scene.
Yeah.
Would you say emo music is like the disco of millennials?
Like, is that the genre of music we're going to look back on and be like, oh,
look, listen, we don't know what we were thinking back.
No, the disco music is the stomp clap that
genre.
That's the email..
That's a stomp clap.
It kind of depends where you' from too.
We'll never die.
I still listen to it.
Well, there you go.
No, you listen to Elmo, not Emo.
No, I listened to Screamo.
Jessica.
It's on the band topic.
I love that Adam Br Brody is our main villain here.
I used to love the OC.
That was one of my favorite shows back then.
And.
Yes.
And Seth Conan from the OC
And I just love that like, as our villain,
he's just, he's not monstrous.
He's not menacing.
Like you were saying, like when he's like outside the bar just being like, I've been looking for you everywhere.
Come on to my van.
Like, it's very just like kind of nonchalant.
And I really liked that, that he was just this like,
kind of douchebaggy guy, but he's also just a dude.
Like, he's not anything like special or over the top.
He's just like this grimy guy.
And I really, really liked that casting a lot.
On the topic of actors, I just wanted to mention that
the original two actors that was supposed to be in this movie
was Blake Lively and Emma Stone.
Oh, wow.
Emma Stone, great.
Blake Lively., no.
Blake Lively had a conflict.
She was doing gossip Girl at the time, so she wasn't even to turn it down.
Good.
Yeah, that's great.
Chris.
Yeah, I just want to like to tie into, the big bad, the villain.
As far as like having an unassuming
villain, was really smart and I think it plays into how
smart this movie really is and the script.
And so kind of tie in another guy, uh, like the damsel, right?
So we have
whatchamacallit, uh, Chip.
So, uh, the boyfriend of Needy in this.
Justice for chip., by the way.
Poor Chip.
He's such a great actor and I think such
a good job in this being like the
boyfriend or like the girlfriend, like in a traditional sense of like
um, what his role is in this movie.
And it was really just really smart to the point where at
the end, um spoiler, it's actually like
in an emotional moment where you're like actually invested in this guy.
Right.
And he like blows off that
Megan Fox's character is evil.
And so it's just, I don't know.
It was just really smart.
I really liked him.
Yeah.
She's not high school evil.
She's evil evil.
Which was, I think that was a great callback to Amanda Sifried's role in Mean Girls, wasn't it?
Like, I love that they, that she wrote that in there.
That immediately made me think of Mean Girls.
And she was totally playing against type this one.
Alex.
Johnny Simmons.
A year later, he gets a role in Scott Pilgrimvers the World as Young Neil
Oh, was Is that right?
Yeah, yeah.
And then.
I will say that I as much as I like Adam Brody
in this role, he nails it, it also
does feel very stuntcasty because he's kind of known
as this indie rock actor kid at
the time, especially during the OC, he was like like
the one that was championing a lot of the music that they would put on the show.
He would like almost like be part of the music selection.
So, like, he kind of had his foot in the indie music world.
I think he also played music as well.
I' Don't quote me on that, but it feels like he loves
music so much that like when you even watch him acting on stage
as the the lead singer, he's got the mannerisms
down for like that era of a lead singer.
Like the way he's the way he's flailing his body around, the way he's kind of like
just his mannerisms, the way he looks at,
you know, and it's almost like watching a music video.
Straight out of Central casting for that demographic.
Justin?
No, I just want to go back in, I want to, because
I agree with you, Chris, but I want to disagree with you with one point.
I don't think Chip is all that.
I think Chip was I think Chip was the
guy that was like the loving Caron boyfriend in the beginning, but he still fell victim
to being just like like every guy anyway.
I don't know, maybe it was like a seduction thing
or whatever that he couldn't help.
It seemed like he could help it.
It seemed like he did have a choice.
And when he was like kissing Jennifer
and by the tree and everything and then she was like luring him and all
that, I feel like he was still competent enough to choose to say
hey, no.
I mean, he did it later.
I commend him for that, I guess.
But he still went through with it.
And he he still like got rid of the trust of
his girlfriend, whether she knew about it or not.
And I know that she was technically trying to save him and
everything, but like, it was only like, what, a
night where they were just kind of like not seeing each other and he took it as a baking up.
I'm like, damn, dude.
I'm like, he just ended up becoming like every other guy too.
So did Chip deserve his death?
Yeah, absolutely.
Did he have a redeeming factor to his character?
No, not really.
He pretty much wasted his entire time.
I'm on teamship.
The heart is a sensitive being
and she made
a very compelling case saying, like, hey, you girl wasn't a virgin.
Here's the thing, though.
He was dismissive of needy.
When she was telling him the things.
And this is a thing when he talk to like any sexual assault
victim, they will say a lot of the people that they talked to at first,
if they were brave enough to like, like talk about it, they were
oftentimes disbelieved or dismissed a lot of these victims.
And so that he was playing the typical like dismissive,
which, okay, that makes a lot of sense in that, like
that sort of role, but he was not saying sensitive.
He was he was like, at the end, he became sensitive
because like, oh, he died, but then he heard her voice and they're like, I should have believed you.
But it's too late.
Jessica?
I go back and forthth on Chip because I,
as a character, I don't think he like brings a ton to the
table and I don't think he's like the most riveting
character, especially with this movie.
And when you compare like how compelling sort of the
other male actors are to watch in this, that like are also victims, so to speak.
I don't know, but I also kind of think that's sort of the point is
like, we're not supposed to be like overly obsessed with him
necessarily because he is playing a damsel role and there's
so many times in so many movies when the damsel is just simply that.
Like, just simply
there sort of.
And so I don't know.
I do get what you're saying though, where like, yeah,
he could have been better definitely.
But in this world compared to
like the Adam Brody character, I guess he wasn't like that bad
But yet, he really, very
quickly gave in to Jennifer very quickly.
And I don't love that quality about him.
That's a good point.
You know, Mace wasn't a supportive boyfriend in movies.
Adrian Grenier's character in Devil Warsse Prada, I'm like, what's up with this guy?
Like, your girl's trying to break it into the fashion business, bro.
Like, let her cook.
Arnold, you had something.
I was trying to, the chat was saying
they brought up a point.
I'm not sure if you guys remember, but.
Regarding Chip. um, I was kind of hesitant to read it, but I guess I guess I will.
I don't.
I have to now.
Do you guys remember, uh, it was towards the beginning um when they'
uh, needy and, um Megan
Fox, they're about to go to the bar and they're like, she's downstairs at the house.
And then they said, she said, uh, Megan Fox says,
uh, eat my ass, Chip, and that they're supposedly,
I don't know, I've got to re-watch it again, that Chip,
he paused.
Like, people are saying in the chat, they're saying that there was a little bit of like
like four foresight that maybe Those pregnant ps that
he actually was thinking about it.
Like, doing that.
This chat is like...
Arnold, I'm going to say as funny as that is,
you have a good point.
Yeah.
Actually, in fairness, he did have a pregnant pause.
Now, they're also saying that
she should be careful of saying that because there could have been a
mob of people who are obeying her orders.
Right, right, yeah.
You can only serve so much, right, Arnold?
Yeah.
No, that is
an interesting point that your private side chat brings up.
So good on them.
It's helping me to digest and the kind of process through,
you know, because we we were talking about chip and there
there was maybe a little bit of at the beginning.
Arnold Arnold sidehat is saying the
quiet parts out loud, Yeah, exactly.
Arnold's sideChat is going to have a cabinet position.
Anytime soon now, I can st it.
Let me ask you guys this, though.
Let's talk about J.K. Simmons's character, Mr. Claw, I call him.
What was the point of his character?
Because I feel like he didn't really do much outside of the two scenes he was in.
His whole purpose was to show off that wig
Oh damn, man.
Every time he was on, I saw him, but I saw that hair first.
And I was was like, what is that attached to it?
I'm like, wait, why is it attached to a really good actor in this movie?
I thought Perms died in the 90s.
I had to second take his character for a second.
I was like, I was like, is that JK Simmons?
And I was like, yeah, it is.
He just has like this really weird like
golden girl's wig on.
There's a cat attached to his head.
What's going on?
Yeah.
Jess?
I mean, he also was in June Juno.
He played Juno's dad.
That's true.
So I wonder if it was more so just like a, hey, we love working together.
Come on into this movie.
Sure.
Like kind of thing.
Because, yeah, he's just sort of there, but I'm not mad he's there.
Exactly.
It was perfect.
The amount that he was in it was just enough.
I think it was kind of like one of those naive
characters that they kind of put in.
Kind of like the scene whenever everybody's walking and he's like, yeah, let it out, kids, let it out.
Thinking that like they're all out in the woods screaming
because their friends died or anything. in reality, you know, he's getting murdered.
I thought they were going to go that.
Teacher tries to seduce student route, and it
ended up being the jaw character, Jonas that ate it first.
And I wrote down in my notes that scene where they go into the forest right before
she kills Jonas, all the animals come out and I wrote down like,
like evil reverse Snow White or why are these animals coming out to watch her fucking
take out this dude?
And then they cut to J.K. Simmons's character and he like hears something.
He's like, hmm.
And I'm like, okay.
And that was pretty much it for his character.
Donnie.
I was just wondering.
He was like, why did he have one head?
Like, I thought they were going to talk about it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Your guess is.
I was it was like a victim at some point that they
were going to touch on later down to the storyline, but..
He went to a wardrobe, and he saw the claw sitting there.
He was like, I'm going to wear this and then we'll, okay?
Nobody's going to say anything in comedic affairs.
I could see.
Simmans being like, I'm going to wear that claw.
And he's just like, fucking, all right.
An interesting like side point to like that's kind of similar to that.
So in Pulp Fiction, uh, Samuel L. Jackson
in the original, like sort of like photos of them like
doing like the promotional stuff, they shot all those photos before they
filmed the movie and he wasn't wearing that Jerry Kl wig.
Yeah.
But then he saw the wigs and he's like, I want to wear this in the movie.
And so, that's how I got it.
I think that Jerry Curl really like adds to his character.
I don't know why.
Like, visually.
Like, it makes sense.
Yeah, and I think..
The clog adds to J.K. Simmons' character a lot to me.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Justin.
Going back to the animals in the woods,
I think that it's more of like a a ritualistic type of thing.
You know how it's like when you see like a
group of animals like doing some like weird stuff, it's
usually a sign of like demonic sessions going about.
That's kind of a horror trope.
You see that, like in some horror movies where like the animals start
acting strange and it's like a sign of things to come
Chris.
Yeah, I just wanted to, like touch on, like this movie
legitimately is so freaking hilarious.
It really is.
The quantity of jokes in this is
like just flat out punchlines or like throwaway lines is great.
But overall, like the tongue-incheekness of the whole movie of like
not breaking the fourth wall, but essentially acknowledging that there's a fourth wall there the entire time.
Right.
Like at the whole time I felt like we're
in on the joke and but we're just not going to talk about it, just sit back and enjoy.
That is a great point.
It was, I couldn't stop smiling at a horror movie because it was just so funny.
I love that.
I 100% agree.
Donnie.
I just wanted to mention this movie was heavily influenced by the Lost Boys and Gingernaps.
And in Gingernaps, you see, you see that too.
Ginger Snaps is, you know, they get a ticka werewolf or something.
I can't remember.
It's an older movie Is that a movie?
Yeah, it's a movie.
Yeah, I've never seen it.
Yeah, check it out.
It's pretty good.
It's one of those.
It's very similar to today.
You'll see a lot of parallels with that movie in this one.
Nice.
Jess.
I'm just going to the comedy elements of this horror.
I think that that's so hard to do
And you're right.
It's like, they acknowledge that there's a fourth wall there, but they don't really at the same time.
And it really reminds me of scream in that way in
that they're able to sort of blend this like you're
in on this too and this world is really weird, but you're like along for the ride.
Also, I think my favorite throwaway line in
this movie might be when Cullen asks Jennifer out
He asks her to go see Rocky Horror and she goes, I don't really like boxing movies.
I forgot about that one.
That one is good.
Now that we're talking about the common aspect, my complaint is, I can have
Amy Sed in this and not have her do one funny thing in this whole movie.
She had like one or two scenes and that was it.
But was it Chip's little sister?
What did she say?
Penis cheese?
She said he had penis cheese.
And I was like, holy shit.
Kids will humble your ass real quick.
I also wrote down, Amanda Sif Sifried's
boyfriend has that early 2000s Justin Bieber haircut
that was like all the rage back then.
That's sort of like, you know, that flowy, like covering your eyebrows.
He looked like he was ripped off a Disney Channel studio.
Yeah, with with that haird.
I's I was like, that hair's a choice, but okay.
Speaking of which, the Hannah Montana throwaway line was
also like such a like dated.
Towards the end, it was Jennifer talking to Needy and
Needy delivers like some corny line.
And so in retort, Jennifer's like, whatever, Hannah Montana.
Like it was just such a, like stupid,
silly, funny line to just like include in this movie.
Was it like in the dirty pool part?
Yeah.
I can't remember that, yeah.
Even that whole scene, which was like super dark was was funny.
Alex.
A Sidaris's character while she didn't really
have a lot of comedy in it or even have a lot of scenes in it.
She didn't like release a few kind of things.
Actually, things that I would want to like talk about, like as
a point of view that I kind of, after doing some research,
I thought was like very, very interesting that how like this film
does into more of like this sort of the passion of Christ narrative.
It's very layered too.
So there's like the outer layer that we're kind of like discussing, right?
It's like right now, it's like the modern day high school sort of
like drama, sort of rebel without a Cause sort of thing, Mean Girls thing.
But then it goes into like, like these different layers.
She
like talks about people were trying to nail you to a tree and
I wouldn't do it because I'm a toughest Ford mama.
And like he says JC and if you think about it, like two,
Jennifer, check JC, Jesus Christ, JC.
That's like part of like the whole so like they've talked about like there's
like the modern high school narrative And then the middle
layer, there's like the deal with the devil, the medieval thing, right?
But then there's the ancient, like the even deeper level of
the Christian narrative, basically following the, like the passion of the Christ sort of narrative.
There's even a scene where in the fire, you
see Jennifer, she's mesmerized by this band and she's like, just kind of like this.
And then Ny is trying to pull her out there and you see
her head kind of like tilted, like looking at her and it kind of mirrors
this Last Supper painting by Peter Paul Rubens a painting.
It's the Last Supper where it's like almost like the same sort of position.
There's nothing creepier to me than religious Judeo-Christian imagery, I think.
Jess, I think you had your hand raised?
I did, but then I forgot what I was going to say, so I lowered it.
I feel you..
I was all the time.
But those are like, that's a really, really interesting
little Easter eggs to religiosity in there,
which makes sense because, like, I mean, we are talking about like demonic possession.
And at the end of the day, both girls in a way, like, are sort of also
reflective of like the Madonna and horror complex, right?
You know, with Needy being our like Virgin
Mary, so to speak, and Jennifer being like our whore.
But at the end of the day, they
they are sort of these more pure beings than the band.
They're not the ones dabbling in Satanism, right?
So, like, it's interesting to have these sort of little
things that reflect the fact that like they're're still, like pure, so to speak.
Like they are in the light of the, against the evil.
So all those things are really interesting to hear.
Definitely.
And I think this movie did a a better job of that than
whatever the heck Shelby House is trying to do, right?
Like, with that sort of the imagery.
Chris?
Yeah, well, uh, to talk about our two main characters, I...
wanted to see what the group thought about.
This definitely has a more female
centric storyline written, directed, and all that kind of jazz.
What did you guys think about like the scene
between both of them, having that kiss at that evening
Because it's like that felt like such a Fox studios
thing of like, okay, you guys have to have them kiss.
Or like that was like the mandated scene, I think.
That was like the scene where the studio was like, okay, fine, you want to do a
story about these themes, blah, blah, blah, but can can we have them kiss at some point?
I think that's what that scene was, you know?
I just wanted to throw it to throw it to everyone because I
I personally like thought that was kind of like, again,
this was such a smartly written movie.
And to have that scene in there, it kind of felt like a we're just going to throw a bone to an audience.
Like if you came here expecting this, here's like your reward for sitting
through the this long, like this part of the movie.
And did you notice they had it in that they teased that scene in the trailer?
Yeah.
So I didn't know if that was directing writing.
It was going to be there regardlessless, or if they like really played
that up to hopefully garner some more
like talking points.
Alex, what do you think?
No, that was actually part of the movie.
It was never like something that the studios wanted to see.
Because here's the thing.
They were always connected in a way.
And there was always some sort of attraction between the two of them
Especially because if you think about it now, like they
would always have this connection because if you remember, like she,
like in the soundbox, she had t stuck into her hand, right?
Which is supposed to symbolize the stigmata.
And so when she pulls the attack out and then Needy
kisses it or like, you know, sucks the blood, she's taken part in the body of Christ.
And so from that point on, they had a connection forward.
That's why you always see, like, she's able to like, I
could tell that she's she's like, that's weird that she, whatever his name was.
That's so weird that she guys have that weird connection if you know that you're..
That's why when they they would feel things, like when they
were having sex, she knew like what was going on.
And then also when, when she was going to kill
Chip, she's like, felt on her lips.
She's like, that's when she she goes and like tries to find him.
And then at the end, if you notice when
right before she kills Jennifer,
she breaks that bond by like ripping off the necklace.
And then that's when Jennifer realizes that's when their bond is gone.
And that's when she just kind of lets go and then like almost
lets her, lets Needy kill her to like almost like free
her from this sort of demonic possession.
That whole kissing scene is
never meant to be like just for the marketing.
It always goes deeper.
I didn't put that. together, and I just had a moment of realization.
The stigmata.
That's actually, now that I look back and think
about it after you said all that, I'm actually kind of blown
away by that detail because I didn't really catch onto that right away.
I had to watch the movie again after watching that video.
This movie goes way deeper.
And I don't know if Diabloodi was actually trying to
do this or people are just kind of like, again, like people like making up their own connections.
I really agree with that point too,
that like the scene between them
I always sort of interpreted it as like,
they're, like, in a trance almost.
Like they're not really like, necessarily making the active choice to do that.
It's just sort of happening.
And like when ND breaks up and is like, whoa, what's, what the hell is this?
I think you're right.
It's like that they have a really, really deep connection between the two of them.
and it's sort of, they are like just going all
in on this connection and it's not necessarily like, I think you're hot.
I think you're hot too. like, but the marketing
took that moment and made it into that sort of like,
like fitting their sort of narrative.
But like, I always sort of took it as like
this possession moment has like almost made them
even deeper connected whether that's just like the bond of two really good friends.
I don't know.
And I I also wanted to ask you guys, like, you brought
this up already about the necklace when she rips the necklace off and that like makes her weaker.
Like I've thought about that a lot and I don't know how to interpret that exactly.
Like how
like, I like it.
Like, I think it's a really interesting choice.
I think it's really cool, but like, I'm, I don't really understand like
what that necklace and ripping it off like that is supposed to necessarily
represent, like, and where that's sort.
I think it's kind of like similar to the prayer beads, maybe.
Like, what do they call those?
Oh, okay.
You know what I mean?
Interesting. appri. ros beads.
The rosary beads.
Like, I think it's like, like, there's like religious
significance to like people like passing them down to family members or even like being gifted them.
Interesting.
There's also, I can't remember the name of it, at least in
my Catholic upbringing, there was like these, like these charms that like, gosh, I can't remember.
It was like pictures of a saint on like your friend and your back.
And I think that also, if you like ripped those off something about that too.
So yeah, there's probably some sort of like religious symbolism and
it also severs like their deep bond almost.
But yeah, I gosh, all this religious stuff is so interesting to me.
I do think she probably did it on purpose with like how her upbringing is.
There's a lot of, is it like, is superstition founded in religion or is it the other way around?
I feel like it's kind of both, right?
Because because I also grew up Catholic and I feel like there was a lot of
superstition, especially in the Catholic religion.
Like, I remember one time we were in Mexico with my dad and my uncles and
we went to some church and the priest was doing the water thing, you know?
My dad turns to me and he's like, see, we're going to be good now I' nothing's going to happen to us, you got water.
I think the whole superstition thing, though, is like connected to
like almost mockery or even like deviation from the actual stories.
Like the idea of the succubus is
stems from an a story that was written after.
It was supposedly part of the Bible, but the narrative, like the
Bible had already been written and all that sort of stuff.
And then hundreds of years later, they created this story called of Liveth.
And Lvith was like supposedly the first
woman made from the dirt of the ground.
She was rejected by it and then she became evil and
she was supposedly like the first succubus.
Justin and then we'll go to Donnie.
The superstitions I grew up with in the Christian household
is if you spilled salt on the table, then you do a line.
What?
Like a little like..
I've heard of that..
I've heard of that.
What?
Yeah, you do a line.
I'ing sal of salt.
Well, salt, yeah.
That's how I became dicticted to cocaine.
I kept spilling salt everywhere.
It was so bad.
Wow, Donnie?
Yeah, I was just going to like, like that whole thing, that whole scene.
My interpretation of it was that
they're kind of like one person.
They're like opposites, right?
But that's kind of the breaking of them, like their separation kind of.
And so by by breaking that off, it was
like, she lost a part of herself sort of thing.
And then the whole sex scene, I or the whole kissing
scene, that went through numerous reiterations and
it was supposed to be a full-blown sex scene between them two.
Oh, God.
Yeah, but then Diablo Cody thought that
the chemistry, just a kiss, was enough for the film, and so they went with that one.
Sometimes less is more.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
You know what I mean?
Like, it gives you, C it, C it.
Chris, let's just go to you next before I get too deep.
Clock it.
Socle back to Chris.
Well, the magic of this movie
is, yes, there's so many different layers to this,
the layer of like speaking to the tropes of a horror film.
There's speaking to the religious aspects that they really smartly
tied into so many aspects of this movie.
There's the commentary on feminism.
There's so much, so many different layers to it, which is why
I think it's so grounded in every single scene that it has, it builds upon.
And whatever the audience member wants to get from it, it's, it's there.
Like they can follow the religious storyline.
They can just follow a good writing.
They can follow the feminist, uh, part.
And I think bringing it back to
like what it signified for breaking that necklace.
You see throughout the whole movie that these sort of have this like push,
pull, love you hatecha, sort of relationship where they're
like, boo, youhore type of like attitude, but like they
always come back to like, oh, we just do it because we love each other so much.
Like, like as true friends.
and like deeply bonded.
And I think part of that as well, when she rips
her necklace off was like, oh shit, you're like actually pissed off at me.
Like, we're not going to, is the final straw.
So like, yes, there's the religious stuff.
There's like so many symbolic moments
in this movie that it's just, it's just such a smart movie.
It's like really interestingfortunate
how good it is.
Definitely.
Jess?
I just want to take a second to give you guys your flowers
because this has been such an awesome conversation about this movie.
I think this may be like the best conversation I've had about it.
And like the fact that like, no offense to anyone here.
You guys all seem lovely.
You all have seemed lovely last week when I was on.
But like watching this movie, I was a little like,
what the hell is this going to be like talking about this with a bunch of dudes?
Because
this is a weird movie to talk about when you're the only woman around.
So thank you guys for like, I don't know, just having a
really smart and like nuanced, awesome conversation,
just appreciating the art for being the art.
And honestly, after having this conversation conversation, I love
this movie even more, which I didn't think was possible.
So just, I don't know, thank you guys.
This has been really awesome.
You understand now why we want a lady on this show.
Yeah.
I think if you had joined us 10,
12 years ago, 15 years ago, and been doing comedy podcasts.
We would be different people and be having this conversation.
I don't need to know those guys.
I'm glad.
I'm glad you caught us now.
I think Adrian said it best.
We're liberal Nazis.
No,
Hey, we're liberal skinheads.
That's a reference to an old episode, by the way.
Well, no, thank you for that.
I mean, that's why I wanted to have Amber tonight on, too, because I feel like she also would have brought a certain balance, you know what I mean?
But
well, as you can see, she hops in and out.
But we'll get her on at the same time someday.
And yeah.
Donnie, I think you had something.
Yeah, I know we talked a lot about it already.
You know, at its core, this is like a feminist
horror film right And like it really talks about like female empowerment and stuff.
I just think it came out at the wrong time because when we see its
resurgence and where it gained traction was during the Me Too movement in 2018.
So it's just one of those movies that it just didn't come out in the right time.
You know, I'm glad I was revisited and people,
you know, look deeper into the meaning behind it.
And now we can appreciate
it for what it was
Alex?
Yeah, just to touchback on the whole like idea of like feminism in this film.
But I wanted to share this video talking about feminism.
I can I want to try doing a share.
I don't know you had those permissions.
Let me see.
I won't have to change that.
No, I'm just kidding.
So this is.
Oh, wow. that.
This is a video
Let's see it.
Talking about a film.
This is like the video that I. I got a lot of things from him.
And this is she's talking about like feminism and
the correlation to how it's more than likely an
outgrow of electricity. hit me with it. unusual
view of the relationship between Christianity and feminism
In general, feminists, modern feminists set
themselves up in opposition to Christianity, particularly on the issue of abortion,
the Handmaid's tale, kind of neop Puritan outfit
being the uniform now of American feminists and so on.
I'm of the view, though, that actually feminism
is an outgrowth of Christianity, and that the
fundamental idea in Christianity, which is so different from other religious traditions,
that weakness is strength, that the first shall be last,
that there is something valuable about being being small and
vulnerable rather than something despicable about it.
I think that feminism completely relies on that idea
which is by no means shared by all cultures and certainly wasn't shared by
the ancient Roman culture from which Christianity sprung.
And so if you're operating in, say, an ancient Roman culture,
which doesn't see women as inherently vulnerable, which actually sees female
vulnerability as something to be despised,
potentially, and which sees prostituted slave women as entirely
available for male sexual consumption that cannot really conceptualize the idea
of a slave woman being able to be sexually violated.
You know, it's just not kind of within the moral system.
It's it's not understandable
Into that comes the Christian idea of sexual equality at least to the spiritual level.
And the idea are therefore, that actually even
a woman who doesn't have male kin available to defend her against
sexual violation, which, of course, the slave doesn't, she is
nevertheless worthy of that protection.
It kind of
socializes as maybe the wrong word, but it
shares that duty of protection among the community.
And among women, I think that's basically what feminism is,
and says that actually we should be bestowing on these friendless
women the same protection
that a woman with high connected male kin has.
It's a very difficult system to enforce.
To some extent, we try and use police, criminal justice system, whatever to do that job.
It's a hard job to do, but that is basically the modern project, and I think it is born out of Christian reality.
Interesting.
I found that explanation of, like, this movie ties into
Christianity's and feminism is so interesting.
There's an interview where Diablo Codi says, like, like she's
asked all the time, does she still believe in God?
And she says yes.
And she she gets mocked by her friends for it.
I find that interesting more than anything, honestly.
You know, good for her.
Ston toes down on your beliefs.
It is what it is.
But thank you for sharing that, Alex.
Jess, Yeah, that was super, super insightful and really interesting.
Really, really interesting points about feminism and Christianity, actually
not needing to be separate, even though we as
a society, for whatever reason, do tend to separate them.
But what she was saying there towards the end, I thought was
really interesting in the context of this movie where Jennifer
is like, sort of portrayed as like, you know, very
sexually active and where needy really isn't, but that
doesn't mean either one are more valuable or more, you know, deserving
of becoming a sacrifice for this stupid band to
have album sales, which I think is just
a really interesting point where like in some horror movies and
a lot of horror movies, the trope is like, you know, the,
like the promiscuous girls are the ones to go first sort of thing.
And this also plays on that
where it's like, well, no, just because she is a
sexually active girl doesn't mean she deserves anything bad to happen to her.
So that, thank you for sharing that.
That was really, really interesting.
Yeah.
Well, they even in that video, they talk about, like how, like, there's
there are a lot of like nuances and it's complicated
and they don't give concrete answers to everything, which is great.
I think that's that the beauty of film and like a
good story that does that.
But even they even said that there are bad women out
there and even though there's like portrayed as like, all women are good kind of thing.
And there's also, there are some good men, even though it's
portrayed as like there's like a lot of bad men in the world.
And so it's like that's like, that's that whole like sort of interplay of how
complicated this issue is and how the whole idea, like there's no concrete answers or everything.
I was not expecting to go this deep tonight over Jennifer.
I told you, I told I had some really,
I had some really interesting POVs that like after watching that
video, you're going like, it's going to blow your mind to watch the whole thing, I think.
I love it.
I love it.
We're well behaved today because normally it's just us making sexual innuendos
with Arnold, but tonight we were actually, you guys got
me really thinking about some things here.
Damn.
We really went deep with this Megan Fox movie.
No, it's's usually the
the chat, you know, I'm just.
Yeah, your chat, you.
Following, you know, I' following sharing
what they're saying because that's entertaining.
That's a good point.
Okay..
Well, gang, I think we've done it.
I feel like we could probably go on and on, but I think we're at that point now
where we start to wrap her up.
And the question for the night is, and Chris, I'm going to start with you.
Was this movie ahead of its time?
Your thoughts, Chris?
Absolutely.
I think when you talk about
ahead of its time, sometimes I
kind of equate you that too, is it outclassing the competition currently?
And I think it still would today.
Like, the complexity
of this movie to be packaged in such a way that
if you want to just show up and watch a good horror comedy
you can do that.
And if you're like a film schob, like this
has got so many gritty details to it that is just like,
truly it pays like so many
great moments to anyone that watches it.
Like whatever you want to get from it.
Unless you wanted a whole bunch of sexy scenes.
Then you only got like
a quick tasting and that was it.
Sorry, dude.
Yeah.
Where can people find you, Chris?
Yes.
And then as far as a whole movie, I give it a five out of five.
Especially in this category of a
horror comedy, like that's like so difficult to do.
And you can find me at Milkman America.
I like it.
Donnie, what do you think?
Is this movie ahead of its time?
I don't know if I should say ahead of its time, but I think it came out the wrong time, right?
Like So it just, it
just didn't have the right platform and it didn't work it properlyly.
There's just all these elements, but I just don't think it came out on the right time.
It would have been better for it to come out later, right?
Yeah, I thought it was a really good film for what it is too. what Milkman
was saying, like you can watch it at a surface level or you can go back and watch and dissect the hell out of it.
And either way, it's an enjoyable watch.
I watched it once before, but it
was so long ago that I was, I completely forgot what it was about.
I honestly probably just watched it because I saw Megan Fox
in the commercial.
They probably lured me in that way, but I don't remember much about it at all.
So, yeah, it was a great watch this
time around where I was actually like, you know, like dissecting
it and trying to take it for what it was.
And I have this problem where like anytime I watch a movie and I like it, I tend to
dive deeper into like who wrote it, what their history is.
And I do that with a lot of the films that that we do on this podcast.
And I was actually talking to Amber about this.
I wish you could have joined us on the podcast, but she told me that the author
wrote a book called, what was it called?
Candy Girl, A Year in the Life of a Unlikely stripper.
And I think when you I haven't read it yet, but now I'm interested in it, right?
But I think if you
if I take that and I read into it, it's going to explain a
lot more about, you know, the two, the dynamic between the
two women in this movie and what what the author was really trying to convey.
Got check that out.
Yeah, I give it a four out of five.
Or can people find you?
They can find me at Donald underscore Donnie Appleseed mainly on Instagram.
If you want to check out some of my photography, 125 photography, also on Instagram, mainly.
Nice.
Justin, let's go to you next.
Was this movie ahead of its time in any way, shape, or form?
What do you think?
I did some like light research for it time
and it's its toughest competition was
a cloudy with the Chance of meatballs, the girl with
the dragon tattoo, and the informant.
The informant definitely bad marketing.
I think, I think this movie probably could
have stood a chance on its own at that time
And I do, you know, I agree with you guys.
Bad, really bad marketing.
I think, I think they bait and switched the wrong
people for this movie in particular.
This is a clear cut, classic horror movie.
It's a fun time.
It's a good experience
Megan Fox is wonderful.
Honestly, I thought, like you guys said,
she's like one of the best like assets to this movie..
Her acting chops are, you know, amazing in this.
And I don't think she was that great in Transformers.
I think she was just kind of like slapped in there by Michael Bay
and is like, all right, just run around the.
No, this actually shows her skill.
And quite frankly, for her to not get like
really good roles like this later on in her career,
makes me like kind of sad of what we could have got from her.
I think she could have gotten some really
big roles, some serious roles.
I don't think anybody took her seriously other than she looks great, and that's it.
And I think that's a shame.
And I think it's a shame on Hollywood.
And, you know, the Weinstein Company and, you know, shame on all of them.
Like, fuck them all, for real
you know, Amanda Seyfried also extremely amazing in this movie.
I think everybody was great for you, Chris Pratt.
And overall fun experience.
My vision of this movie and
my overall opinion of this movie has changed since I last seen it.
I think now that I have a little bit more grown up eyes and I'm able to
kind of make those connections, even when having this conversation.
Like there's some things you guys brought up that I'm like, oh yeah, that's a good point with everything.
Everybody had really good points tonight and I'm like, I didn't really have much to say because I'm like, what am I going to add
that has an already been said or I didn't even think of it.
So I think, I think this movie has a really good talking points
on about a lot of things going on in society as a whole.
You know, so my original Letterbox score was actually a two and a half.
I'm going to I'm going to boost that up to three and a half today.
So
you can find me, Ghost Nerd 88 social medias.
Yeah, go follow me and I can yell at y'all some more.
Thank you, Justin, for that.
Jess, yeah, what do you think was this movie ahead of its time?
Where can people find you?
I think it was absolutely ahead of its time
I mean, gosh, like the early 2000s wasn't
that long ago, but it was still like a lot of ignorance flying around at that point.
But what's interesting about this movie is I think
that it's both ahead of its time and a total time
capsule for what the early 2000s was like.
Like, you know, the dialogue, the costuming,
the music, there's like the feel of it, the actors in it.
Like every, everything feels so much of the
time and yet the themes and the nuances and the and
the comedy, all of that like is still ahead of its time.
And we talked a lot about the marketing of this movie
And I do wonder, like if they had marketed
this movie properly and for what it was, if
it would even really change the success all that much.
Because again, like, was was people ready
for something like this in the early 2000s?
I don't know.
Like, I don't know if if audiences wanted to explore
like a horror comedy with all these deep themes.
I don't know.
But I do know that like, I like that over
time, we have all sort of figured it out.
And like we, it took a while, but like a lot of us got
there and realized that this is like a great movie
and it's something that can be appreciated for
what it was then and what it is now.
Also, you can find me at just Quaz,
J-E SS KWAZZ, on Instagram, TikTok on YouTube.
I'll be launching my YouTube channel in a few weeks, so please follow me there.
I'm really excited about it.
I think by the time this episode comes out, it'll be very soon.
But my first episode is going to be a deeper dive into all the scandals that surround the show Euphoria
And I'll be doing video essays on
pop culture and movies, so if you feel like what
you heard about my opinions tonight, please give me a follow there.
I would love to talk to Euphoria with you if there's ever a chance,
because that show is There's a lot.
There's a lot to unpack..
I want so much so much to say about that show.
Let's just say it is a show.
It is a show.
It will always be a show.
It's a show.
Thank you, Jess.
for that.
I appreciate that.
What was your, Did you say you had Letterbox?
I can't remember.
Yes, my letterbox is also just quas.
My star rating for this five stars.
It's a banger.
And after this conversation, like I said, like exploring
and unpacking all these things, I I just love it more.
There's so much that this movie offers is that I watched it
twice this week in preparation for this episode and there's still things
I didn't even pick up on until talking with you guys.
So after this conversation, absolutelyolute five-star banger for sure.
Nice.
Nice.
Thank you for that.
All right, Alex, yeah.
What do you think?
Was this movie ahead of its time?
I agree with Jess that it was
Also
ahead of its time
but also a time capsule
Like, there were certain things that kind of made me, like, kind of
PTSD, in a sense.
Like seeing like, like hearing the music, the
style of the comedy and the way it was like the timing of it
the pacing.
It felt like a C.
I was watching a CW horror film.
That's what it made me feel like.
I was watching like something on a
that channel, that network and I was like, oh, wait.
And then there's Adam Brody there.
His new show, uh Jennifer's Body, coming to you on on Thursday nights.
Like, again, the music, just like like that.
And that first one, before I had watched that video,
like, actually multiple videos of like, like getting people's thoughts and like theories about the whole thing.
And I had scored it a three and a half just
because because the whole idea that
it did feel a little bit dated.
But after like doing my research, I was
like, this is deserving of a second watch.
I really, really loved what I saw after that.
And that's why I was so excited to like have this discussion with you guys
You know, I thought it was really an interesting thing too.
At the very beginning, they talked about that whirlpool in the outskirts of the town, right?
And they're like, they don't know it.
Like, where does everything go?
And then they show that the knife and the ball comes back.
They found it in the in the stream.
And it's like that kind of like also this symbolic thing that
like, where they're going back to the whole passion
therearrative, they like, it's like when Jesus gets sacrificed and
he comes back, he punches through death and is able to
like reveal himself and get
redemption or vengeanceance or whatever, you want to call it.
That's the same way that like Jennifer is able to get revenge.
Even though this is not a vengeance film, her spirit lives on within needy.
She understands that she still loved it.
She loved and cared about, even after she kills Jennifer
at the end of the film, she even says, like, Jennifer is dead already.
So they had to like kill her.
So like this whole thing thing was like, like the real Jennifer, she knew
she cared about and wanted to take vengeance against these boys that like these.
And we don't even touch on the movie openinging in prison with Amanda Sfried's character and ending with her.
I completely forgot about that whole thing.
And
yeah, that was like, it was bookended by that.
I thought that was really well done.
Dude, you just continue to keep blowing me, man.
Blowing my mind.
I had a three and a half.
I after this discussion and after like seeing it a second
time from like watching all those videos, I've definitely give
it at least a four and a half so four and a half
You could find me on Daily Dare on all the socials.
Well, yeah, no, thank you for that, Alex.
Yeah, Arnold, you're the last man standing, my friend.
Does this movie.. was it ahead of its time?
You don't even have to answer if you don't worry...
I'm so blowed.
Mind blown..
Bloated?
Gosh.
That's what we usually do.
Well, I just have a lot of salt, like sodium over the past couple of days.
I had seven pieces of fried chicken yesterday.
Oh, gosh. before watching this movie.
So
But what was the question again?
The question was, was this, do you think this movie was ahead of its time in any way?
Alex
and Jess, you guys said it very well, that ahead
of it, it is ahead of its time, but also a time capsule, like,
it's like you guys got into my mind.
I was like, yes, that's the perfect description.
But, but also, I couldn't help but think of the, I
think this movie would rival sinners.
Yeah?
I think it was, I think it was, especially after talking about it.
I mean, Siners was, I mean, visually,
I think a lot better, but also, I mean,
according to the chat, this was a lot better, visually also.
I'm pretty sure I know what they're talking about.
Oh, yeah.
But, um You like the cinematography. is what you're saying, basically.
Yeah.
Cinnamon is great for you.. appreciate a good DP.
Cinnamon is Director of photography, obviously.
Oh, did you say cinematography?
Oh, never.
Director of photography.
Cinematographer.
It's interchangeable.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought we were diving deeper into food for whatever reason.
And
we are past another 30 minute mark so I'm not sure if I had sufficiency
this while..
I'll do that.
I'll do it.
I'll just this one.
You have to keep your mouth close to the mic, but still
do the sp spin and twist and everything.
Yeah.
Oh, that'll too hard.
Do that for me.
Do it for me right now.
He's tired.
His ankles are sore.
His ankles are swollen from all the sodium he's eaten.
I only had seven pieces of fried chicken.
Only seven pieces of chicken from Shaky's.
They're a bunch of lunch.
Shout out to Mahinda.
No free publicity. on this show remember that.
Arnold, you're salty.
Yeah, get it.
Get in the paper for a segment.
Like Arnold's's demeanor sponsored by Shaky's, you know?
Are you saying that I'm very salty, just like how
Jennifer was saying how Adam Brody was?
Yeah.
Ooh.
Yeah.
What did that people were saying?
I could only only imagine.
Yeah.
The slang, the heavy slang
that they used at that time was great.
It was a good little throwback.
And when we watched the preview, I saw that Panic at the disco.
I'm I got to go back.
Now I'm trying to figure out
because I'm a fan of Panic at the Disco.
I went through some of their concerts and I love them.
yeah, this was a great movie.
I definitely do think it was ahead of its time.
When I first watched it yesterday,
I was going to..
My initial thought was a three and a half, but then after I
started to think about it myself and was like, uh, I
bumped up to a four, but then after
dissect dissecting it with you guys tonight,
I'd have to bump it up to a letterbox four and a half.
That's my letterbox score.
Really, really great movie.
I am going to watch it again.
And so that's my score.
You guys can find me.
I'm Arnie Clego everywhere.
Instagram, TikTok.
Well, Arnold, it's that time of the show, right?
My favorite part of the show.
Arnold Sn a meter.
All right, Arnold.
So you kind of hinted on it earlier, but yeah, tell us.
Yeah, what is your snoozing meter score?
It It was
one completely because of me.
I'd had had to give it to me.
A half Z rating.
Wow.
Had I not gone to Shaky's bunch of lunch, I probably would not have
been a little bit heavy-eyed.
Yeah, yeah.
To say that How many rounds of bunch of lunch did you go for?
How many hours?
How many rounds did you?
How many rounds?
He's mashed potatoes as well.
And spaghetti.
Yes, you said hours.
Hold on.
Hold on.
You said hours at bunch of lunch?
Did you like spend the whole time from open to?
I thought that's what you asked.
I said rounds?
Rounds. see, I had a plate. economy, Arnold?
I had a plate of salad.
You got to have balance.
Oh, yeah.
Sure.
And then Did you put dressing?
Island?
Oh, I had a lot of beats.
Beats.
Both the dexidants and the beats.
Yes.
Yeah.
It was very good for you.
Helps to wash away a lot of the fat.
So you.
So
I think I needed to eat more, more of the beets.
Butough of me... my beating.
What do you have to say about
this, Mr. BWOTZ too big?
So I actually want to lieu of my reading my
review, I want to go over my raw notes that are out of context, and I don't even remember what the hell I was talking about.
Maybe you guys can help me.
Let's see.
Door Knocker's monologous piece.
I don't know what the hell that means.
Door knocker's monologue is peak.
Anybody?
Okay.
Maybe that's just, I don't know what the hell I was talking about there.
Moveon.org references peak.
Didn't expect that in Jennifer's body.
Beisis cheese.
We talked about that
Amanda Sifried's boyfriend, Justin Bieber Herka, we talked about that?
PMS isn't real.
I think Jennifer said that at one point.
PMS isn't real, Needy.
That was good. emo kids, fuck condoms.
I don't know where that came from.
Did someone mention condoms at some point?
Holy Nightmare, Sex villains, I wrote
Jonah sitting in the cook chair.
Am I too big?
He said to her when they were doing it.
I thought that was hilarious.
I don't know whether to be horny or horrified.
That's just me saying that.
Indie bands want to be on the Dave Letterman show.
I was like, I don't know how the kids back then wanted to be on Letterman.
That's kind of an interesting.
I think they wanted to be on Conan.
that makes more sense.
She can fly, LOL.
Does somebody fly at some point?
Was it Jennifer?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she levitates.
And then that line is also really good because Chip goes like, oh my God, she can fly.
And he goes, no, she's levitating.
It's not that impressive.
It's such a great roadway
That was good.
Don't need laxatives to stay skinny, LOL.
I don't know why I wrote that.
What's the context?
She says that too.
She does say that.
Okay, good one.
I go both ways.
That was in the trailer.
I put rip chip.
is she not going to take a shower after all that?
She's still covered in mk.
Butt squeeze.
I don't know what that's about.
God, you're butch.
Somebody said that because I haven't in quotations.
Oh, no, no, when she has the box cutter that she got
from Home Depot, which she's like, and then Jennifer's like, God.
I got your butch.
Yeah.
I'm glad it was Home Depot and not low Lowe's.
No, I'm just kidding.
And what way was this movie?
Oh, okay.
That's it.
That's all my raw notes, and tonight's going to be their last show.
Does somebody say that at some point?
I don't know about that.
No, she was like, yeah, that was at the end.
She's going to kill him.
She's going to kill low shoulder.
Oh, yeah.
And if you watch the scene, they show all the pictures of,
like the FBI pictures of them dead, that's when she went to kill them.
Yeah.
Which also that image of her walking down the hallway,
staring into the camera is really, really spooky.
So good.
It was such a nice touch to be like, hey, this is a horror movie.
That waterfall is real, that Devil's Kettle orfall.
That's a real place in Minnesota.
You can find it at a state park.
And you can find me on Letterbox, by the way.
It's too big.
You can find the Shakesoda there.
You can find the show. everywhere else.
We're everywhere, guys.
We're on TikTok.
We're on threads.
Blue Sky, Facebook X, visit our website.seit Podcast.com.
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If you like the show, leave us a comment, leave us a review.
Big thanks to Mr. Kyle and a Burn cycle for the intro and outro music
You can follow Kyle on Instagram at selfies underscorenders underscore pets.
Thanks to the HLP for the Arnold Snmeer music.
Thanks for listening and watching any final final thoughts from the gang.
Megan Fox's best performance end down.
All right, guys.
Love you, Megan Fox.