Never Seen It Podcast

Never Seen It Podcast — Episode 94 Broken Flowers (2005)

Episode Summary

We dive into Broken Flowers (2005), Jim Jarmusch's understated mystery starring Bill Murray. We explore the film's unconventional storytelling, emotional depth, ambiguous ending, and why this quiet road trip about regret, love, and missed opportunities remains one of Bill Murray's greatest performances.

Episode Notes

Can a movie still be satisfying if it never gives you the answers?

This week we discuss Broken Flowers (2005), director Jim Jarmusch's contemplative road movie starring Bill Murray as Don Johnston, a man who receives an anonymous letter claiming he has an adult son he never knew existed.

We break down why Jarmusch refuses to follow traditional Hollywood storytelling, the film's unforgettable ambiguous ending, and how every stop on Don's journey reveals another layer of his past. We also discuss Bill Murray's subtle performance, Jeffrey Wright's scene-stealing supporting role, the incredible ensemble cast, the film's recurring visual motifs, and how silence often says more than dialogue.

Along the way, we debate whether Don is searching for his son or searching for himself, why each former relationship reveals a different kind of emotional wound, and whether the mystery ever really mattered in the first place.

If you enjoy thoughtful character studies, indie cinema, Bill Murray performances, or films that leave you thinking long after the credits roll, this episode is for you.

#BrokenFlowers #JimJarmusch #BillMurray #MoviePodcast #FilmDiscussion #IndieFilm #MovieReview #Cinema

Episode Transcription

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<head>

</styling>

</layout>

</head>

<div>

Chris is here tonight.

In a returned special guest Lisa Counterman.

Welcome back, Lisa.

Nice to see you and then there's me.

Boots Too big, aka.

Adrian Datoria.

And tonight we're discussing the 2005 Jim Jarmouche film Broken Flowers

I

starring a Who's Who.

He got Bill Murphy.

Bill Murray, almost said Bill Murphy, Gosh, darn it.

We got Bill Murray, we got Sharon Stone, Jessica Lang,

Tilda Swinton, Francis Conroy, the list goes on.

Chloe Savigi.

Is it Savigi or Savi?

Savini.

Savini, okay.

I always screw up last names.

But yeah, that's the movie, Broken Flowers.

It's about a man, the introverted Don Johnston.

Not to be confused with Don Johnson.

Don Johnston receives an anonymous letter from an ex-lover

informing him that he has a son who may be looking for him.

A freelance sleuth neighbor motivates

Don to embark on a cross country search for his past flames, seeking answers.

And of course, how could I not mention Jeffrey Wright?

Jeffrey Wright as as his neighbor who

is like so, no matter what Jeffrey Wright is in, he always brings a good performance.

I don't care how bad the movie or show is.

He's always great.

But yeah, this was Alex.

This was your movie.

And I think we chose this because of the spinamer that Justin did.

But this was your movie, I believe, that you put on the spreadsheet.

Tell us.

Why did you choose broken Flowers?

I love Bill Murray.

I love Jim Jarmouche.

I know he's a very polarizing kind of director as far as

the craft is concerned.

But like I do feel that a lot of like actors,

actors and like people who love film film really

love Jim Jarmou and want to work with him.

He's like just a sought after a tour.

He's not everybody's cup of tea.

and I warned everybody because ahead of time because of that.

However, I love his, his

style. like, I will admit, like, it is hit or miss.

Like I like I love Ghost Dog.

I love this film.

I watched Limits of Control.

That one was

a tough one to watch, but I watched it in the theaters and I was kind of like late at night.

Limits of Control was a good one, like regardless of..

And that one also stars Bill Murray.

Broken Flowers is it's an interesting watch because I

feel like when I when I not

discovered it, but when I was introduced to it,

I was kind of going through through some like, you know, breakup type stuff too.

Anybody can relate to this.

Like if you've been in a relationship and have gone through like

a breakup and like kind of like being introspective of like what

uh, your past was like when I like, how did, what was the effects

of like every single relationship that you were in?

And how did it like affect not just you, but your partner at the time?

And you see that, you see him go through like what he like

each kind of iteration almost of each

romantic partner that he he had.

And I really like that.

I really like all every partner that

he visited, the meeting got shorter and shorter and less intimate as he went along.

Like Sharon Stone was super intimate.

He like Well, first of all, he gets there and he and I'm mostly clean on this.

Was she her biological daughter or her stepdaughter?

I was not clear on that.

That was that was Sharon Stone's biological daughter.

Okay.

He gets there and he meets her first, and then she's very flirty.

She's very like, you know, that kind of way.

And then at one point,

at one point, he's like waiting for Sharon Stone to get home from work

and she like walks into the living room naked and I was like, oh, very nonchalant.

Very nonchalant with the phone and everything.

I was not expecting that. and then Sharon Stone gets home and I thought it was going to

be like, I thought they were going to blow up or something.

But no, like, she's like so

smitten with him, it seems.

And that was the most intimate person that he went back and

saw. like, you know, the next morning, he's in bed with her and stuff.

So I thought that was a really interesting sequence of events, the way they put that together.

A friend of mine was in a very similar situation where,

well, then it was like a date and then they went back to

like his place or her place.

I'm not sure.

Yeah.

But then he was, you know, I think it was her first date.

And then he was like, you know, waiting sitting

on the couch in the living room and she was like, oh, I'm just going to go and get something.

And then, but then she casually just walked in like completely naked.

Like,

I think he went to the kitchen and I was like like, and he was also like really thrown off.

Yeah.

And, um that they didn't really date that much.

And you know what's interesting though, is that Bill Murray is sort of famous for his like

non-reaction reactions to a lot of things.

And he said that this is his like best acting role that he's ever done

And he's kind of like dismayed by the fact that it's

like not one of his most famous roles, and yet this is the one that he's most proud of.

And I was like, that's that's so interesting.

But yeah, Chris, I feel like you were you, you had something to say you were wanting to say something.

Oh, I was just going to comment that that was definitely the warmest interaction.

And I thought that was interesting that the warmest got the most attention

Yeah.

It just not started all off.

Yeah.

And then like, as we got like quirkier or darker, they got shorter and shorter.

And it's, um, to a degree,

this is like a a little bit of a mystery movie.

Right.

And so you have this detective hat on

and you're getting like these mixed bag of clues all the time.

And it's sort of like a, if

you haven't seen it, it's had bit of a spoiler,

but it's got nothing to do with the mystery whatsoever.

And I love the way it's framed in the beginning where it starts off with the postal carrier delivering mail

and he gets this mysterious pink envelope with a woodpeicker stamp.

And that pink is a visual motif throughout the whole movie.

And I thought, oh, every time we see pink,

we're going to get more and more clues as to what the mystery is, you know, as far as solving it.

And then, no, we never, we never really get that.

He never gives us

that release, that catharsis.

And I was like, I respect that.

Jim Joush.

I see your game?

I respect that, you know, because in any Hollywood movie, it would

have been like, you know, the very end, he would have discovered who the son is

and who the mom was, but no, Jim. spoiler alert, we're getting hit ourselves, but yeah, Jim Jararmouche, he pulls back.

He really does.

But I respect the hustle.

want 15 more minutes and explanation and I want something to be done.

But I was going to comment because it

was interesting to watch Bill Murray because he had so many scenes that

were done so well with no words, not

really a change of facial expression, nothing, just absolute

st statue, staring.

And it amazes me because anytime I'm

asked to do an audition and there's no lines, no nothing, and

it's very subtle expression changes, that is the hardest thing thing to do.

So watching him sit there

and somehow I could tell what was going on in his brain

just by like nothing.

And, you know, there's a lot of those long scenes where he's sitting on the

couch in his living room and he''s just kind of looking, staring into space.

And I keep saying, gosh, he does that furrowed brow really well.

I don't know what it is about him, but that furrowed brow can be

anger, it can be embarrassment, it can be anxiety

And somehow I can tell from him.

And so I thought he did an amazing job.

Alex.

Jarmouche doesn't go the easy route.

He never does.

And I read an article that kind of explained, like went into this reviews.

Jch never goes the easy route.

He's hardly in a hurry either.

Instead, he slows down the pace and invites us to

observe how a guy like Don, who over the course of the

movie, reveals himself to be a charming man, nursing

a soul that is fractured on some fundamental level, was

capable of affecting all these different women's lives

And I think that's that's, you know, the beauty

of like, why it works so well with Jim Jarmou's style.

If you notice his edits

and the way he like cuts to the seedses,

it's he does like very simple ones.

He like he does one, like this one thing where he just like fades out and fades in.

You don't see that a lot.

It's like a very, very simple, like, like editing thing.

But like, it's so

well done and it just gives you like that point

where like it gives you a moment to take a breath and take

a breath and like kind of, uh, digest what you just went through.

It feels like he's purposely like, let's transition because we're going from a chapter

to the next chapter.

And he's like, it's a nice, soft transition, and it works.

It's simple.

It's very simple.

I think by 2005, those kinds of transitions were already like

out of style, but he's like, no, I'm going to give you a nice little

chapter to chapter, the usual transition.

Yeah, he's very old school like that.

Very old school.

And you see it in a lot of his films, the way he does things

Yeah.

Chris?

Yeah, just to add on to the directing and

overall, just the entirety of the movie, everything

from behind the camera to in front.

This is such a seasoned film

that if you don't know what you're looking

at, it can seem more like such a basic movie. with not much going on.

And I kind of equate it to, sorry, it's going to be a

sports analogy, but you'll see sometimes like, especially like

football or boxing, you'll see some of these like really experienced

fighters or really experienced athletes.

They don't have wasted movements.

Like they, they just don't, in order to compete at a high level with like the young bucks and whatnot.

They have to know exactly where to move and how to move because

they just don't have that sort of like that level to their game anymore.

And in so many ways, I feel like that from the directing

to like even like the music to the acting, from each actor, not even just Don.

Like obviously Don has to be the perfect cast, which they did with Bill Murray.

And I agree that this is a perfect film

in that sense.

But with everything being so nuanced and so simple,

any misstep is highlighted.

And because it is such a simple, not, no,

practically no action in this movie besides the first X

that

it's un unservic level, so basic,

but as you appreciate and the patience that

you can have with this movie, if you just let it settle in and you

just keep an eye out, there's so many smart little things, everything from a furrowed brow to

a pink motif that never gets revealed,

but just enough to keep you interested in a movie that is relatively boring.

Like if you think about it, like even during boring

scenes, you're like hunting for stuff in the back background or upon

first entrance to a very basic, like these are just owners.

This is a basic car

Uh, what's he say?

He says something about like, I'm just a stalker in a, Hyundai or something like.

I'm just a stalker for tortoise.

Yeah..

That is so like, it's so perfect

in so many ways, but it can be so overlooked so quickly and so easily.

It's a funny movie.

It's it's It's very subtly funny, but it's a very funny movie throughout the whole thing, by the way.

Alex.

Jim Jarouche also directed The Dead Don't Die.

And that's a zombie film, a horror film.

And it was kind of unexpected to see him do like a horror film.

But here's the thing that I, why I think he, it was perfect for him to do a horror film.

With Bill Murray as as well, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bill Murray as well.

Oh, Chloe Savini was in that one, too.

And Adam Driver.

Yeah, Adam Driver.

But anyways, Joe Swinton.

Yeah, and that's the cool thing about like Bill Muro, too.

He has such like high caliber actors and actresses

who want to repeatedly work with him.

But going back to why he's so good at,

he was like unexpectedly such a good choice to

direct a horror film is because if you look at this film, right,

you're watching this film and he's going into these people's homes and these like trying to meet

And in horror, you kind of like have this thing where

you're, you're, you're watching.

It's like this thing of misdirection, right?

But so you're you're watching this thing take

place, but then you, there's this underlying current that you

have this feeling that something bad might happen

within that scene.

And you kind of feel that in every single scene

where he meets with his exes.

And you kind of like, oh, wait, is that Sharon Stone's

scene where he's, you see like a

race car driver husband and you're like, is he't going to come

home and like see this guy in her, like,

and then you realize that, but, but you don't know that until later

on, Sharonstone reveals that he's dead.

And so it's kind of like cy relief, but then there's still this like

well, what about the other exes?

Is there something crazy going to happen?

So you kind of like waiting on the peripherals, but you're still kind of

misdirected by what's taking place in front of you.

And I think that's such a skill that

he has, that why it's so well done.

And if you think about it, why he was good to do Dead Don't Die.

Definitely.

Arnold?

Yeah, I love how this movie

yeah, I had never seen it before, but.

You don't say it.

Going into it, I had no idea that it was going to be

kind of like like a mystery movie.

And as

you guys were talking about it, I did find myself like, oh, there's pink.

Oh, like looking for a little clues because there was that

was such a really great point, Chris, that you mentioned that

there was a lot of it was very slow paced,

a lot of quiet moments, but but

it allowed you to see scan through and like look at

different things at the the shots of

where he is, where they're going, different colors and

um and yeah, uh murder

murder, I mean, not murder, but like mystery kind of movies

is like a genre

that my wife absolutely loves.

And we both watched it together last night.

And no, she really, she really enjoyed it.

Maybe it was a little slow pace for her, but

Arnold, I want to ask you, and we'll get into each of

the ex-partners because they're also interesting and unique in their own way.

But Arnold, let me ask you, if you got a mysterious pink letter in the mail, how

many X's would you have to go back and like talk to?

Like, is it one, two, three, four, five?

Like, how many are we talking?

Like, would that be an Odyssey for you, Arnold?

Actually, I didn't really have too many girlfriends growing up.

Well, the logistics would work out in your favor then, I think.

When I was like a teenager and

still living at home with, you know, like middle school,

high school, I didn't really have a girlfriend or anything.

I didn't have a girlfriend or a boyfriend.

Same.

Yeah.

But

I don't think my parents would have let me..

But there were girls that, you know, you would I would talk to and stuff.

So, so I don't know.

Maybe just like a handful of them.

Yeah.

A couple handfuls of them.

A couple of hand dozen handfuls of them.

I'm just kidding.

A couple dozen handfuls of them.

Uh, Alex, I think the term we should be really using is

methodical when we talk to.ethodical is a great word.

When we talk about his Jim Jarmou's style.

Yes.

Like it's slow, but it's methodical.

Like he's not

trying to make it a slow movie.

It's all intentional.

And we should be using the word sexy when we're describing Bill Murray in this.

Yeah, exactly.

Just as well.

Absolutely.

For me, it's Jeffrey Wright.

But yes, second on Bill Murray.

You know, I think people would say it feels slow because also, like it came out in 2005.

I think 2005 versus 2026,

the pacing of movies, no matter what genre, has gotten so much faster

nowadays.

And I think people would look at this and yeah, they would complain.

But back then, I feel like this would have been a normal pace.

It's not even that long.

I don't even think it's two hours long.

But I want to talk about each ex-partner.

Let's start with Sharon Stone really quick.

What I really appreciated about that scene when they're having dinner with her and her daughter.

There's like, I thought at first it was, I thought it was kind of an awkward

quietness, but then like as they cut to each of them looking at him

they're both like smiling.

They're both like appreciating that he's there.

Like Sharon Stone's character is very much like, I don't know.

She seems so happy for him to be there.

And then I realized, oh, I think I'm just like projecting my own feelings.

I don't think this is awkward at all.

Like, this is probably the most wholesome moment that he has in the whole movie.

What do you think about that, Chris?

I'm in the same boat.

I thought it was awkward at first as well.

But like, as a Kent, just like with this movie, the longer you sit with it

the, the more like you put the pieces together, again, it

is so to your point, methodical, because these

women just lost their father and their husband.

And so they probably haven't had a man coming into the house.

So like there's just probably going to be like this natural weird energy

of this random man coming back into her,

the mother's, into Laura's life and then the daughter's

got this weird like mystery father figure that's coming in.

So there's probably just like a lot of weird emotions

naturally coming up because you have this like

um rekindling slash,

just kind of like a nice distraction. because I would imagine there's

probably a lot of like heavy emotions that that family was dealing

with prior to where we come in with Bill Murray, right?

So I could imagine that there's just

a whirlwind of like not a lot of dialogue because they're internally

trying to figure out all of these things and completely inored by Bill.

I agree, I should say.

And it's interesting because after the dinner scene,

they wake up the next day, they're in bed together

And I thought, oh, no, maybe she's going to regret it.

Maybe he's going to regret it.

Maybe there's going to be like another, like a, I was expecting like a blowup.

I kept expecting a blow up each time.

And I guess maybe that's just a Hollywood way of thinking.

But no, like he leaves the house and she's in her pink bathrobe

and she just kind of sees him to the door and she and then they both kind of,

and then the girl, the daughter's in a bikini and she's smiling and saying bye to him and stuff.

And I was like, okay, I wonder what the next one's going to be like.

And the next one is Francis Conroy

who, by the way, is like has been in so many movies, and I always forget

that I always forget, but she's like in so much stuff and then whenever she pops up in a movie.

I'm like, oh, it's Conroy.

And she's the next one and she is, I guess just like a suburban housewife, right?

He gets to her her house and this one feels a lot less personal.

I almost felt like Bill Murray felt like a door-to-door salesman or something.

Like the dynamic he had with her was a lot different.

Like the vibes immediately shifted, and I wanted to ask, we'll go around the room.

know if I just read too much out of this, but I felt like

she was in maybe an unhappy

marriage, maybe an abusiveive marriage.

And

the eye exchange between her and Bill Murray, I don't know.

I felt almost like there was a deeper,

like she was trying to tell him something like, I'm not happy.

I'm, I'm in trouble or something.

And I almost felt like

I did not pick up on any of those nuancesances.

I will be honest.

That's so great that you bring that up.

I Christopher McDonald, I thought he was just, when he brought

the picture out, I thought he was just like fucking with him.

Like, oh, like, I know you took this picture, but I'm married to her now. type

of thing, but, but you're saying there's like an even more subtle level of like, there's something fishy in

Yeah, I mean, she just kept, she seemed super awkward

and she, I don't, didn't feel like it was awkward with Bill Murray.

I almost felt like she was feeling very uncomfortable and awkward with her husband.

But when she did that little flinch, when he touched her hair, it was

like this, don't, don't touch me kind of thing.

And if you look, if you go back and watch, Bill Murray notices it.

He doesn't react, but he notices it.

And there's this awkward, like

I wonder if this is the relationship that he's going to like save her.

And, you know, and in my mind, the romantic went down

the path of like, he's going to sweep her out of there and it is very

dry way rescue her.

But I thought it was actually really endearing that this man that seemed to have

no personality was clearly like

in this relationship with all these women and affected them in some way.

Yeah.

So I thought that was actually pretty endearing

That is great insight.

Thank you, Clo it, C it.

That is not really seriously, that is great.

I did not pick up on any of those queues.

I just thought, I just thought she was like, oh, just kind of like an awkward, desperate housewife.

And I didn't see those little nuances.

So thank you for bringing that up, Alex.

So the way I also see, I agree with Lisa, but I

also do see it as if a husband was insecure because

she had probably talked about him and

probably at great length about how great the relationship was.

It's over.

So like, and the possibility of him

ever coming back into her life was like slim to none, right?

But now he walks in there and now he's like this

boom of like insecurity for the husband is

like just triggered.

And I feel like that's, where the awkwardness came in.

Like she probably knew that her husband was coming in eventually.

And that's why at the very beginning, you see this sort of like tension

a little bit because like she probably still has feeling for him from one.

But two, like she also understood that like in her

mind Yeah, it was never, it was never going to see him again,

and she just moved, had to move on.

And here here's the interesting thing about this.

I can't remember I read it, but like they had to,

they had the scbe this film as Don Juan DeMarco.

And it's very heavily

You see all the the movie Don

Juan is in the you know, on TV.

Is he like a famous lover boy character?

Yeah, it's a story about like a famous lover who's just kind of

like, has, can like win women over like very easily.

But this is Don Juan in the midlife crisis

of like discovering, you know, like some sort of stuff.

You know, he's he's he's his most recent lover leaves

him because he has yet to grow.

That's right.

We didn't even talk about that.

The movie opens with him getting D dump, right?

Jillian Dumppe, yeah.

J Delpe.

What is my favorites?

I can't She says something on her way out.

I can't remember what it was.

I can't remember it of.

But I' watch it again..

Didn't they repeat it a couple times?

Oh, yeah, I forgot the movie.

I think, yeah.

I know what you're talking about.

I can't remember.

But Arnold, did you have something?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Well, with this Conroy,

it really did feel like, like there was something

something weird about about her relationship.

Was it her?

Oh, it was her husband, right?

Yeah, played by Christopher McDonald.

Who, by the way, he's so, Chris, you said it perfectly.

Every actor in this movie is perfectly casted.

Christopher McDonald

is so good at playing the smarmy kind of jackass, like you love to hate type of character.

I really love.

Arnold, didn't they have the food look weird, too?

What was that food?

It like car like really shaped weird.

Like the chicken was like cut like to perfect square

Yeah.

Yeah, it was it was like a cake, a little rice cake.

Yeah.

And the carrots were like perfectly circular.

It all looked raw.

The chicken was like square.

Yeah.

It has to represent like the plain suburban-ness that they're living in.

Sorry, Arnold, look at keep cutting you off.

Oh, no worries.

Bl Murray, he stabs like, um

the, like three pieces of carrots and he's like reluctantly

like, and stuffs it in his mouth.

Uh, No, that was funny.

But, the the husband,

he remembered, he was like, oh, like when, when she mentioned

the name, he was like, oh, wasn't he a former flame?

And then, and then there's a lot of a lot of like really silent

moments, like quiet moments, but just a lot of, then

you do, it did sense that as well, oh, there's something up with their relationship.

Like, it almost felt like, is he going to rescue her from this relationship or something?

Or is going to her to realize something?

I was almost waiting for her to do the hand signal.

Isn't the hand signal like

like that, you know?

She orders that special drink that women order at bars whenever they're trying to signal to the bartender that they're in trouble.

I forget what it's called.

There's some drink that it's a fake drink, but if you

order it at a bar, it's supposed to signal to the bartender that you're like in trouble.. tell the research team.

Yeah, I'll have been look into it.

Chris, I believe you had something.

Yeah, I'll'll try to keep this quick.

There was like three points during that,

that specific X. Even before the

husband gets there, there is a level of tension there

that that we don't know where that tension's coming from.

Is it is it between them or what's going on?

And then you get like the inclination of like, oh, she's still married.

Oh, is she going to come?

He comes home And then he does.

So like there, even before

um Christopher, um, the boyfriend or

the husband comes home, there's already that level of tension that's bubbling.

And then you get the answer for, oh, it's him.

He's he's the guy that does that.

Doesn't he ask her or the husband at some point?

He says, like, any, any kids?

And then the husband answers is like, no.

And then something else..itive subject or something like that.

Yeah, that was really awkward

Yeah, she says something about she didn't feel like she would

be a good enough mom to his daughter

Yeah, you could cut the tension in that dinner scene with a knife..

And I don't know.

I thought it was interesting because like on the surface, it looks like the perfect life.

Like she's in a nice big house in the suburbs

and she's like, she looks like they're, I don't know, that they're really supprimental

class, I guess, maybe to who knows?

Yeah, for sure. upper mental.

But but there's like you guys have said, there there's

this weird underlying tension that you can really

and I did pick up on the tension, but I did not even consider for

a moment that, oh, maybe he's abusive or something.

I don't know.

Maybe it's because my Chris McDonald is, like I said, he's so good at playing like the smarmy

jackass type that I thought, oh, he's probably just kind of a dick.

But I't Yeah, who?

To that point, like if you think of even a

not Waterboy, uh, what's the

golf movie?

Oh, Happy Gilmore?

Happy Gilmore.

Yeah.

He plays a very in he does a very insecure man, very well

of someone who's supposed to have power and stature.

Yeah.

Actually being a very insecure man and that carries into this, like he does it great in this movie.

Yeah.

And like to like land the plane

the first ex has

a lot of like this kindled passion that kind of never died out.

And then to contrast that this X

shows that like she was a hippie dippy.

Like that's the point of like when they had that relationship,

they were very like lovey, groovy to type of love

And to contrast that to like how stifled that passion

is in her life to the extent, like she doesn't even feel comfortable

talking, uh, let alone like just being present in that relationship.

And like you said, Don Don Wallen in a middle

life crisis comes in in and kind of stirs up the pot a little bit.

I'm like, yeah, she has a wildcat back in the day.

What happened to her?

Thank you for that, Chris.

And what happens after this?

There's a little bit of a transition here in the sense of like, I think he calls.

He goes into the hotel.

Yeah.

And then Winston calls him in the middle of the

night in like early morning.

I don't know it was me.

I took a guess.

Or what did he say?

I took a guess.

Yeah.

And this is his best friend that's calling him too.

Yeah.

So, yeah, he goes back to the hotel and then

I feel like he talks to Winston and he says something like, yeah, I'm done, man.

I'm going to go home or something like that.

And then Winston convinces him otherwise, doesn't?

Doesn't he tell him like, no, no.

I don't he, no, he doesn't really convince him.

He doesn't really convince him.

He just like.

Just like Arnold, he presses him.

And by the way.

Yeah, Winston, man, like, you need a friend like Winston

to plan out your trip to do all the accommodations and logistics and everything.

Yeah.

Can we talk about him just for?

Yeah, please.

I feel like he deserves his own.

He really does.

I love the little interactions that Bill Murray has with his daughters.

Like there's a scene where he's just like playing tea time

with one of his daughters and he's just so casually like a part of their lives.

He walks over to their house.

He just walks right in, says hi to everybody.

Here's the thing that I, and I had a discussion with one of my coworkers yesterday about

how I talked, how he watched this movie.

And, you know, when it comes to dating, it's better to

attract than to chase.

And that that's what Bill Murray does.

He like doesn't try to chase anybody down.

He finds women, like he finds lots of women attractive.

You know, he sees that woman in the airport

very attractive, but she has zero interest in him.

So, he just like moves on.

He finds Chloe Savini attractive, I'm sure.

Like, you see him like look at her and like he, you

know, but he's not, you know, he doesn't chase after.

Like, he attracts all these women.

And that was something, like, I guess I brought it up because like I

I personally kind of connected with that too, because like

I was kind of looking at like at my own life.

I was like, oh, wow, I, pretty lucky.

You know, like, I haven't dated a lot,

but like, I think the women that I had

been able to attract, it was easy.

Like it didn't, like, I didn't have to.

The ones I chased

were the difficult ones like, and never worked out.

But the ones that I ended up in in relationship with, it was just like so easy.

So you see yourself a little bit in Don Johnston.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It just shows how he's, he's quiet, he's introverted.

But you look at how Winston's kids love him.

A, a good person somebody who was his wife.

Yeah,

She's probably very attracted to him, like finds him very attractive.

You see how she talks to him.

Yeah.

And when she's like, she's mine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he gets like got a little slightly insecure, right?

But, you know, like, also, like, like, like attractive

men, like are attractive attractive people in general.

I don'tone just say attractive men.

Atractive people.

You know just being physically, you're talking like just attractive the person.

Well, that's the thing, though, too.

It's like, it's not like about like their looks either.

Look at Bill Murray.

He's not like

the best looking guy in the world.

But he's aura about him.

Then that's the thing.

His personality, his character, his character,

like you look at him and you see see how he interacts with those kids and you know that he's a good person because

the way he treats those kids, like they're just people too.

And he treats them like, like equals as well.

That's a good point.

You know, he treat them like kids.

He treats them like that.

Remember when he walks into the room to go see Winston?

He walks into Winston's office, but like one of Winston's

kids is trying to reach for this toyy that's on this desk and he's like trying to, and then

Don immediately stops, grabs the toy and gives it

to the kid and he's and then the kid's like, thanks, Don.

Like, like as if he's like his uncle.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

He's a good uncle type of person.

You know what I mean?

And that's so, so beautiful, you know, like,

he's a truly attractive guy.

He just probably has like, like, like in that article

said he's like a fractured part of himself that can't hold down a good down a relationship.

What was the thing you said earlier, don't chase but attract or what was it?

Don't chase attract.

Okay, that's I'm going to have to keep that in mind.

That's a good one.

Yeah, the great, great scenes with Winston and his family.

I really like when Winston, this is still early on in the movie

He goes to his house and he's trying to convince him.

He's got like a CD.

He's like, you even burned you a CD to go with your trip and all that.

And he puts it on and and Bmer's like, no, listen, I'm not not going to do this.

Drop it.

There's a constant theme in all this Jim Jarush's movies.

The CD.

It's Ghost Dog, he puts a CD in the car.

And actually, I think there's a specific song

that plays in Broken Flowerowers as well

as Ghost Dog.

I need to read he's driving around.

Yeah.

I believe so.

And what I love about that, see, not only did he burn him that music,

which is also used as a movie motif throughout the movie because he's listening to it in his car.

But

he's talking to him.

I mean he's like, drop the subject.

I'm not doing it.

And then Winston's like, okay, okay, fine, you're not going to do it.

And they just stand there for a moment. and you kind of side eye each other.

And you know, like, like Winston's going to keep bringing it up.

And then he does again.

B's like, fine, fine.

And then, I don't know.

It was such a small little moment like in acting, just like that little side eye they do.

Like they notice each other so well and he's just waiting for him to speak and then he does.

That's a great moment, acting-wiseise.

Going back to the CD, I think I know which which

movie that they also use Yeah, what was that called?

Ghost?

I should probably look that up.

I mean, Ghost Talk, they did a lot of Wu-Tang, which

But I mean, I love Wu-Tang.

But, you do love.

I think it kind of had like, like, it's Ethiopian jazz is the CD that he gives them, right?

Yeah.

And it's by a specific band.

Muladu stuffy.

I don't know if I'm saying that, right, but

it's an Ethiopian jazz band that is a real band, I believe.

I really love the soundtrack, by the way.

It's really good.

Yeah soundtrack's great.

I got to check that out.

So yeah, so what's the so the third ex-partner

is Jessica Lang, who Jessica Lang is so great.

Like I've mostly seen her in America Horror Story.

I know she's been in a ton of stuff over the years, but she is just so fantastic.

And her

so visiting her is even less

personal than the previous two because she visits her at her work.

And she's not a therapist.

I think so.

And her cat that comes in is also named Winston

That's what it was.

That's right.

The dog that died right..

What was the guy, Remember when he gets there and the guy, there's a patient

coming out with one of his, I don't know if it's a squirrel or a rabbit, and he's like talking to me.

I forget what he says.

He's a rabbit.

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like he walked out and he was like, I'm so glad you told me this or something like that.

I had fell off the couch laughing at that.

I was like, that, that would so be me.

I'd be the one going to the animal communicator.

Yeah with my dogs.

It sets the tone for that whole scene, and he

goes in there, and Cloavini is the secretary.

And like you said, Alex, he's kind of like, he's kind of like checking her out, but like

being cool about it and she's kind of like catching him, eyeing her a little bit.

And then he goes in to talk to Jessica Lang

and he's like, what is he say?

Like, so you're a, you're an animal whisperer?

She's like, no, I'm an animal communicator.

She's very clear about that.

And yeah, I mean, let's talk about that.

What did you think?

Chris, I'll start with you.

What did you think about Jessica Lang's character?

I thought it was really interesting to

have these different women have different things that we're kind of exploring through

Bill's eyes and

kind of diving into the history without really diving, right?

This is all very like reading between the lines and every scene.

Because we never actually get anecdotes of their relationships, by the way, with any of them.

At all.

And so you're just kind of like trying to judge it

literally based off this like weird tennis match that we're getting with each one

And with this one, I thought it was so interesting that boundaries

were like the biggest thing that I was thinking of, because

their relationship was when she was a lawyer.

So she was more high profile in the sense

of like, my job and status and yada, yada, yada.

Now she kind of has a kooky job, right?

As far as being an animal communicator, but there's this level of

um, I know I can't let myself or I'm not going to

let you back in in that sense.

And she is even trying to sniff out, like, why are you here?

Like, I'm not letting you get an inch.

Yeah.

I'm going to stop you at every instant.

She wouldn't give him nothing.

He's like, you want to, you want to go grab a drink?

Oh, I don't drink.

You want to go grab lunch?

No, I don't think that's a good idea.

What a master of just like, nope, not doing it.

Boom.

That's yours.

Nope.

Even a walk.

You buy it because it's Jessica Lang and she's just that great of an actress.

And she's not even nasty about it either, by the way.

She's very like respectful.

Very healthy boundaries were just like standing firm in it,

not being aggressive or overly assertive.

It was just like, this is where I'm standing.

No, like, shoot it straight with me.

Whatever you're looking for, I'll give you the answer.

But that's it.

Does he ask her if she has kids?

I can't remember.

I thought he did ask her at some point.

I think he asked almost every one of them.

What was her response to that?

The daughter.

Okay, that's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

But she hesitates for a long time.

She She looks at him and then says, after a

long period of weight that she has a daughter in Sweden.

But then it just gets dropped.

There's never a why.

Why do you, this type of thing.

Alex, I think you wanted to say something?

Well, I just found it interesting that like, especially after

their relationship, everybody seems to get become fractured.

Even Bill Murray, obviously, he's slowly throughout

like his whole life dating all these different women.

He never really truly heals himself, but he also like

is probably like the cause of like

some of these women's, traumas.

Like, you look at, you know, Jessica Langon,

for instance, she probably, she kind of brushes

off the fact that she had had a daughter in Sweden.

But if you think about it too, like the fact that she

kind of brush it off and like, is obviously not married anymore.

She probably doesn't trust

people anymore.

And that's probably why she, she would probably random. she talk to animals.

Yeah.

She'll like rather talk to animals.

And then Chloe Savini's character is like the is like the like

a protector, you know?

She like is like the gatekeeper of like, of her heart in

a sense, you know, she knows his intentions

and like, like whether, like she knows exactly what was going on.

She knows, she gets the sense that there is some sort of romantic

thing that happened between the two of them and and then she's like, you're not going to hurt her again.

That kind of like

codependent relationship in a sense that,

where they're like, Chloe Savini's protecting her and

for better or for worse, it works.

I agree.

I like how much mileage he gets out of each of the ex

partners of his.

Like they're all, they all have their own one scene or sequence and they're not throw home movie.

They're just they're very siloed, but he still like gets so much mileage out of all of them.

And it works out great.

Arnold.

Didn't Chloe Savini also play

the secretary for Patrick Bateman in American Psycho?

She did in fact play Patrick Bateman's secretary, yeah.

Okay, okay.

Yeah.

a lot of one girl she doesn't kill in that movie.

Oh, yeah.

She plays.

I wonder if she's played any other assistants in other movies.

I don't know, but she's been in a lot of..

She was in American Horror Story as well, Jessica.

She was in kids.

She was in kids..

Oh.

She was in..

Which was probably before American Psycho then.

Way before that, yeah.

She was in Zodiac?

I don't know what she was in Zodiac.

Hmm.

Is that?

Well, I remember in American Psycho

Patrick Bateman, Christian Bale.

He's like, don't't wear that outfit again.

You know, almost like,

making her like, like she's not attractive or anything.

And then Yeah, but then, and then now this movie, she's being like.

She's a boss girl.

She's like, you got your next employment.

Should I tell him to wait?

He's been waiting.

Yeah.

And then, and then she, and she's like, uh, just tell him I'll be there in a minute and I'll walk you to your car

And then she walks Bill Murray to his car.

And yeah, that's when they have that final push where he's like, you want to get a drink?

No, you want to get some dinner?

No.

And that's pretty much it.

That was kind of a quick one.

Like, they all get shorter and shorter.

And yeah, so any more thoughts on Jessica Lang?

Did you have any thoughts, Lisa?

we don't really know, they don't say for the

first ex, they don't talk about what she did.

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

Yeah, okay.

She organizes closets for people.

That's right.

She did come with that basket.

Okay..

I just I thought it was interesting how diverse,

like each personality of each woman.

You know, you kind of have her and she kind of came across as this like

passionate, you know, kind of lover.

That was her main personality and clearly,

you know, they end up getting into bed together, and she's the only one that does that.

But then you go to the next one who, you know, is this

very contained person who's stiff, and then you come

to Jessica Lang, who was corporate and is now kind of

flighty, being a, you know, animal communicator.

And then you go to the last one where,

you know, it's kind of like tough biker or babe and everything.

And it's, it's, I like how they each had their very different personality.

It wasn't like

I feel like that was to show that he attracted all these diverse women.

And he even, if you remember, goes into the flower shop, and that

woman starts being, you know, acting like she's attracted to him as well, just from that brief interaction.

It's kind of that Don Juan if we.

It's the attraction thing.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah.

You know, it's like unconventionally attractive men being attractive in their own way.

Is there, I mean, from a woman's, you know, this is why they have to have a

woman's perspective on this show, because, like, Tony Soprano, right?

Like James Alfini, he had that kind of aura.

Do you see that?

Could you see that in real life, but these types of characters?

I do.

I feel like

you know, I feel like I've always been

throughout life more attracted to kind of the underdog,

the person that's not outgoing and boisterous and, you

know, has all these people around them, but that kind

of quiet subtlety, the awkwardness that you find

some, you know, just as being attractive

Because it's always nice to see that there's not

a frailty, but that there's, you know, you're not invincible.

And I feel like that's attractive, which

I don't know if that makes sense sense. vulnerability.

Yeah, that vulnerability.

And because

you know, there are so many icons out

there that you don't ever see them slip.

You don't ever see them fly fall.

And that's great for someone on a movie screen.

But in real life, you want to know that there's some humility there.

There is a vululnerability there.

And I think that's why I I kind of would see that.

I don't know.

I think I would also see Bill Murray and be like, I don't know.

There's this weird like attractiveness about his quirky odd behavior.

And hopefully he's not a mass murderer under.

Yeah, yeah.

But I think so.

I think that there's a lot of women that, including myself, that are

attracted to that and not the, you know, the person at the gym all the time like this male.

Right, right.

It's much more fulfilling to be,

In a storytelling sense, it crescendos, like the way

like each character, each X comes,

you got Sharon Stone's character.

It's kind of soft entry, right?

You kind of like, it's this nice attractive, like a, like

wonderful, like happening.

Oh, they hook up and then they go on their way.

But then you get to the second one, it's like, oh, this is weird.

This is when it starts to get weird.

And like, not that the first first one wasn't there't They were weird in their own way, yeah.

Yeah, but it got like more and more intense.

Like, and when you get to Jessica Lang's character, she's very standoffish..

She's respected, like respectable and like how we were talking

about, but she's very like, I have my boundaries.

And then you get to like tell tell this the what's your name?

Tell the sweet Swinton Swinton.

Yeah.

you get to like her character and that's when you're like,

like, you're met with this sort of like, what do you want?

Why are you here?

Very aggressive.

Very abrupt.

And then like.

She's short.

Yeah, very short..

But it's also like like, she means it to be

short because she's like, yeah, what do you, what do you want to be?

Why are you here?

Tell me why you're here.

And like, once she gets the answer, she leaves.

Yeah.

And then, like, like, she starts screaming

and then, like whoever those guys are

they come in, they come by and like, like, why are you hurting her?

Like, why are you, you in the sensitive woman and

then he like gets punched in the face and knocked out.

Punched right in the face.

Yeah.

Chris, you had something?

Yeah, just to like, build on that point,

the stakes are low at the beginning

and it's a slow build.

And with each X, we have certain stakes that are being involved.

Like this is a weird encounter

to have your daughter in the house being weird like this.

There's like a bubbliness still, though.

It's not too int

Yeah, right.

I just make it.

You get to the second one and you're like, something's off here.

This is, and you start to dig.

And again, remember, there's this mystery going on, like

where we are to a degree

also interrogating the exes from our

own perspective as the audience and going like, hmm, could

you have a son that you were not telling Bill about?

Like, we're also doing this same thing Bill is, just with

a little bit more, like a step back to be able to observe everything.

And so we get to the third and we're getting nothing.

Like we, the audience, also get nothing in the third of the third girlfriend.

We're pretty much seeing it through his eyes.

Correct.

You know, and real time.

But at the same time, like, we also have our own unique experience

watching it as the audience because we want the puzzle to be fixed.

Like, we want to see the full picture.

Like, that's what we're, the director just really, really intelligently

strings you along with, right?

Just to keep you going looking for clues in these very minute details.

And we get stuffed at the third one.

We get nothing.

And so it's a, he creates that frustration and in it

stakes without actually introducing anything straight.ful.

And then we get to the last one, and if you don't mind, I'll just like carry us into, please into a penny

The fact that this one is so short and we

haven't gotten any hard answers yet, we are like, okay, it has to be this.

Right.

Right.

And so what I love is how short and impactful we get that answer

And to bring it to the ex-girlfriend, to bring it to Penny.

This ex has this hard exterior, right?

This recluse, mystery dark intensity to her as a person.

And we get to see finally,

someone has legit vulnerability with Bill Murray,

with Dawn, as having this a tough extory, which is like

what I always like to say is angry anger is sadness's bodyguard, right?

And so she has this pent up anger.

She was deeply hurt by Dawn..

That's what we find out.

Like, she is so over Dawn at this point that she

to degree is aggressive with her boundary

and says, get the F out of my life.

Like, no, I closed that chapter.

You've hurt me so badly.

Get the hell out of here.

What do you mean?

Are you talking about these pink letters?

And then we get like the typewriter and stuff??

The typewriter.

Yes.

We get the biggest clue the whole movie with her was that typewriter.

I thought that was so interesting.

Someone else can take it from me..

Well, no, I mean, I wanted to add to that.

I love that it was the shortest scene, the most aggressive exive that he talked to.

And we get the most clues that we think are the clues that are going to lead us to the answer

And then he gets punched in the face and then we cut

to the next scene and he's in his car bleleep, you know, with the black eye and stuff.

And I was like, oh, he's not going to give us the answer right now.

I know.

I think that's the thing with Jim Jarmouche, though.

Like that's a kind of a constant theme.

Yeah like the possibly trope of like a lot of Jim Jarmouche's films in general.

Like, there's no clear answers. for anything.

Like, you look at the ending of just.

Just like in life.

Yeah, exactly.

He makes the audience the cuck.

Like, we don't get like

fully enjoy this.

Like, we're just sitting here watching what?

Like And I think it's, it's, it's great that like he

relates to his audience in that sense that this is real life.

This is what real life is about.

Like, we don't get the answers all the time.

We get enough to like satisfy.

We don't get redemption like ever.

A lot of times.

You know, we don't get like the, that sort of

walk off into the sunset situation.

Yeah.

Like, 95% of the time, 99% of the time, we don't get that.

But we get what we need

And sometimes we have to rest our laurels on that,

like what rest our, like, you know, like we rest

on that answer, that answer.

Because if we don't, it'll just drive us nuts.

And And here's, and here's another interesting thing, too.

It's like, I think that like, I don't want to like us to like forget

about this.s, there's different moments in the film, right?

Where you see a kid, like, on the bus, right, when

he's, you see the Calvin Clydeden model kid, and those two girls are like, oh, look at it.

But he's about.

That kid is like very nonchalant and you look at him, it's like,

one, like, is he's, is this the kid that's looking for me?

Is he because he's kind of like, like he's like gauging if this kid is his son.

But also, too, it's like almost like a a bookmark

and like, like this is the start of my journey, right?

And he's like trying to find my these things.

So he kind of bookends it with like the other kid that was

in like Scott Pilgrim that played the other guitar player at the very end.

But anyways,

at the very beginning of the film, you see

this kid and he like, I think Bill Murray is probably like, oh, this kid is kind of like me.

Kind of very, like keeps to himself, like naturally

attractive, like, like in the sense that where he's like, you know, the

whole idea of like attract, don't chase type of deal.

He's just like, whatever.

I wanted to ask you about that scene, Alex.

What did you interpret for those two girls that were on the bus while

B Murray's writing on that bus and he hears the two girls are talking about about, like, well,

what they're going to wear, like to the pool or something.

And then they notice the guy you're talking about.

They're like, oh, he's so cute.

I think we just, it was just kind of like,

like a representation of Bill Murray when he was younger.

Okay.

And when he when he was younger.

But it's also, like I was saying, it could have been Bill

Murray being like, oh, I wonder if this is the kid that is looking for me.

I was thinking the same thing.

I was like, no way they would..

There's dual meaning.

There can always be dual meanings to certain things,

you know, is you going to meet a son right here on this, on this bus?

Because he even said

that too at the very beginning.

He's like, what if I go on this journey and the kid who's trying to find

me comes to my house and I'm not there?

And that was one of his concerns.

That's why I was concerns.

So when he returns and he comes back and he goes, gets to the airport and he sees that kid that like

um, that he also thinks might be his son.

He's like, um, what's, well, what's going on?

Like, I wonder if this is my son.

And then he just happens to come across him again at that restaurant that Winston and him always meet up at.

Yeah.

And so it's kind of like that interesting thing is like, well, is this my son?

And then like he runs off and because he gets like he gets

weirded out. then he's like, like what Lisa had mentioned at the very beginning of the show.

She was like, you'd get this like, so that we don't get an answer

And then you like, you see the kid who's just kind

of like, he, he sees Bill Murray too.

And that kid is like, he kind of looks like Bill Murray.

Yeah.

And it looks like he's looking for something.

That's not the same kid from the budget bus, though..

Are you saying that's the same character?

Well, there's like three kids.

There's three kids.

Okay.

There's like the kid on the Calvin Klein model looking kid.

Then there's the one that Bill Marie buys the food.

And then is the third kid who's in the car with some

other kid and he's looking as if he's like as

if they're driving around looking for something..

And then Blue Murray's like, hey.

And then then they cut to the end..

And I think that's like, like the, the beautiful thing

about like Jim Jarouche is that the whole idea, like I said

you don't get clear answers and that's life and that's life.

during the whole movie what time period.

I know the year it was made, but what time period they were trying to portray.

Because, you know, know, I was like, gosh,

it sort of looks like when when the one teenage girl,

the earrings and everything, like 80s-ish kind of

time period.

And then some of the decor in Bill Murray's home looked more 70s-ish.

And then, you know, and I was like trying to figure out, and I feel

like it was purposely a little bit ambiguous, but I

do think that the girls being on the bus was almost like a

to remind Bill Murray of the innocence of this.

Like, he's going on this journey.

He's got all these heavy things he's wrestling with.

And it was just a moment to remind us of like, everybody was young at some point.

And all we had on our plate, for a lot of people,

when we're that young is worrying about what boy, you

know, you're trying to dress up and impress.

Right.

Well, it is very time stamp, but because it is,

like Bill Murray goes over to Twinston's house and he's like helping him with the computer and they're on the internet.

So it's like definitely like

that, like, like early internet.

Because like, you remember Winston's like, wow, you could find so many,

you get so many, so much information on the internet.

You can find anything, right?

But it's like this, that old, like old school, like, you

know, like you're on the modem and it's all

He printed he had printed direct directions from MapQuest.

Yeah, so them instantly put

me at like, oh, that's got to be like in the early 2000s.

Yeah, early.

So I remember using that.

And I was like, I remember doing that on like trips to San Diego.

I hated my quest.

I hated it.

Yeah.

I won't get into this too much, but I got

lost one time going from Palm Springs to Phoenix where

I was going to college in Tempe because there was an

accident on the freeway and they delverted all the traffic to some offcounty highway

and it was nighttime, and I had to buy a faking map.

It wasn't a map, Chris?

It was an actual map book, kids, by the way, back in the day.

And I, yeah, if I hadn't followed

this one couple that was at a gas station, I walked up to them and I was like, hey, are you guys going to Phoenix?

Yeah.

Can I follow you?

Because I have no idea what I'm doing.

And they're like, yeah, sure, that's fine.

So I follow.

That's the beauty of AAA, though.

The beauty of AA

you could go to TripleA and even today,

still, you could get paper maps for free.

really quick, backtracking really quick to Tilda Swinton's character

the two trailer park, the two guys in the trailer park with her.

One of them is actor Chris Bauer, which if you guys don't have never

seen The Wire, he plays Frank Spodka in season two

of The Wire, which is one of my favorite shows of all time.

I highly recommend you watch The Wire.

If not, for nothing, watch it for Chris Bauer in season two.

He's amazing.

And I saw him in this and I was like, he doesn't really have lines.

And that was really quick, but you know, no small parts for any actors.

Chris, I believe you had something

Yeah, as we're getting close to like wrapping up this episode,

I want, I want to see if we can like throw out a little,

a little question to everyone because this movie is so

great about being rooted in like a very real reality.

I can feel like I could have felt

like myself going through this whole experience and nothing was like out

of the ordinary or too over the top, even in the weird spots.

It was like, it felt very like, yeah, that would happen in real life

With us getting that real life ending

where it's kind of ambiguous and we don't necessarily get this,

get our answers wrapped up nicely in a bow.

If we could take a snapshot, what

do you guys think happens with Dawn after this movie?

So not like a sequel, but

if you could extend this and

get a little snapshot into Don's life, what do you guys think happens to Dawn?

I want to say that he goes back to his house.

He has some more wine, listens to more Ethiopian

jazz, talks to Winston a little bit, and then I

want to say that his son, this actual son that we never really see or know

at some point, at some point, comes in and, you know, meets him.

And that's just because I want that I do in the back of my mind, if

I'm to extend the story, that's my Hollywood ending.

I want him to get that closure, damn it.

I want him to have that closure.. knows maybe

he lives with him and he gets to hanging out with Winston and his kids too.

You know, I don't know.

I know, that's my.

I talking about that, I was sort of thinking the same thing, like, pretty much.

Right.

He does go back home.

But maybe, you know, I'll, I'll be a little bit more exact with the type of wine

like maybe a Chatea of the pop or something, which is

a red wine from the France France..

What year, huh?

Yeah, with 2006 is pretty good.

What would you pair things as well?

A nice.

What would you pair that with, Arnold?

s So perfect.

I would nice carrot.

Maybe like like a braised short

rib or something with some celeariak on, I don't know, maybe

going to have some vegetable, broccoli or green beans.

But maybe a nice reduction using the shattin of the pop.

Ooh, now you' you're talking.

I don't know what you're talking about about, but now you' talking..

That way, the dishes they kind of like fuse together.

There you go. nice.

It coalesces into a flavor explosion in your mouth.

I think.

No, that I'm thinking about it, maybe the ending totally goes like foodie.

Yeah, exactly.

And then then

No, I don't.

And you got to be playing some.

Bill Murray becomes a chef.

Oh, yeah.

He becomes a John Favro and chef.

Well, actually, no, he becomes an actor and he goes to Tokyo after this.

Oh, okay.

I' see what I did there.

But he was already rich, though, so he didn't have to That's true.

He was always rich.

Lisa, what do you think?

If you were to extend this ending and give,

you know, yeah, well, how would you see it?

is not another realm of possibility, by the way.

You know, people meet in all kinds of crazy coincidences in life.

Yeah.

There's a married couple.

Oh, sorry, I'll talk about that later.

Go ahead, Alex.

My ending, like short-term ending,

would be dis more so like even more depressing.

He's..

He goes, I mean, I don't want to see depressing, but more so

like he becomes more introspective about his journey,

but also like, why are these, you know,

women, why why have all these women had these all these different direction,

taking all these different directions in their lives?

How did I did I affect them so greatly?

You know, I mean, obviously, like...

Maybe he writes a book about that.

Possibly.

I don't know.

I I would just see him like, like, like probably taking a time out on dating.

Yeah.

You know, like maybe like, like he pump

the brakes on like hurting you more people.

Yeah.

And by the way, like, I know we've talked about how like Jim Jou is

kind of like, like sort of on the fringes of Hollywood as a director,

as a storyteller, but this really does have a traditional plot structure.

And Bill Murray's character, Don does have a character arc, because

in the beginning, he's very like, I don't care, I'm not interested, blah, blah, blah, fine, I'll do it just to appease you

to Winston.

And then at the end, he actually does want the answer because

when he meets the Drifter kid, he obviously

seems curious about him and he goes and and he buys him the food and the

drink, and he's talking to him, then he sees the pink ribbon. and then he's like, tell me about your mom.

Like, right?

He's like very like, kind of like escalated at that point.

The kid's like, whoa, man, like, you're freaking me out.

And he like takes off.

And then he goes and chases him

through the streets of whatever little town they're in.

And then the kid's gone.

That's it.

Like, that's, that's the end of that arc.

But you know, oh, Don, he really wants to know.

He wants that, what we all want in life to a lot of things, right?

Is that the, what did I say earlier?

I can't even think of the word closure.

He really wants that closure.

And then he sees the random kid in the car who drives by him and he's just, what does, does he say something to him?

Does the kid say something to Don?

I feel like, he just gives him a face, right?

He's just like, the fuck are you doing, dude?

Kind of face.

It seemed like a dog look.

Well, to me, it seemed more like a like a look of

recognition, slight recognition.

Like he's like, okay.

Yeah, Oh, that's what it was.

Yeah.

And when that happened, I didn't think that's probably his son.

No, I thought, no, that's Bill Murray's reaching.

He's reaching for something because he lost.

But that's I think that's that's the thing.

He's at that breaking point and he's like kind of, isn't

that isn't that typical of like anybody who's like looking for answers and they're kind of at a breaking point?

They're like, yeah, they'll find the answers they'll

cherry pick any sort of like message that they hear to

like fit into like their own narrative, you know?

And that's, I think that's kind of what happens in might have happened.

Maybe it was a son.

Maybe it wasn't.

I don't know.

And that's that's that's the beauty of like this kind of like film.

You don't get all the answers all the time.

And it kind of like that's that's one of those things too, is like,

I love this kind of movie because you could go back and watch it.

Because I have breadcrumbs that leads you back to watching it again.

You know?

I'm glad I watched it at this stage in my life.

I don't know that I would have appreciated this movie in 2005,

you know, because I was I was still a teenager, technically, and I was like, I don't think I would have appreciated it.

But now that I was, you know, 20 years.

When I watched this film, it was probably a year later

but it was kind of like I knew the ending

of my marriage was happening.

Like real, like your marriage.

In real life.

In real real life.

Interesting.

I started...

I started to see it unfold in like different aspects and certain things.

And like, I

don't want to say like I was like, you know, it's like, I

was saying earlier, it was kind of reaching.

But at the same time, you're kind of like, you're

looking at, you start whenever you're trying to like find

things to connect to was it'd be film

or TV or literature or music,

you kind of find these things that kind of like, oh, what's, what's going on with my own life.

The right art will find you at the right time of your life.

Yeah, and when I watched it, I kind of cherrypicked it.

But now looking back on it, like, I

didn't cherry pick the, like to a bad way,

but now that I like watched it watching it again and it with a better perspective,

I'm like, wow, okay, this was kind of me, you know?

Yeah.

Like I did damage

her in a way, but like, you know, maybe, I don't know.

I don't want to get into the weeds with the whole situation, but like there was also two.

It spoke to me what was going on in your life at the time.

Yeah.

It's perfectly

yeah.

Chris.

Yeah, just to expand and not to like drill

in deeper with you, Alex, but I think to Brian in a little bit,

whenever we have relationships that maybe they

didn't work out or there was a misconnection or there was just

we just didn't have the answers that we felt like like we should

have had towards the end of some of the relationships that we had or missed out on.

Absolutely.

In a way, we sometimes we look for those pink letters, right?

In the sense of.

We're looking for anything.

We're grasping at

whether it be hope.

Maybe it's simply just an answer that we never caught.

Sometimes it's also just connection.

Sometimes connecting knowing

somebody has gone through the same thing

is kind of like a comfort

in and of itself. in itself, yeah.

Yeah.

I like that.

Yeah, great, great round of discussion, gang.

I think we did it.

I think that was, yeah, great question, Chris.

And did you want to answer your own question, Chris, by the way, if we get a piece peeking into Don's life right after the ending?

Like, what would you, what are you see in your mind's eye?

Sure.

I'm a hopeless romantic and I, but I do love toying with

audiences as well.

So I would have loved to see like a moment where,

because we sort of see it in the middle of him going like, do I just give up on this?

Like, well, what am I even doing?

Like I got a letter trying to, about a kid.

I'm like, am I actually going to get these answers.

I would love for him after that like kind of like weird

ending where he he gets psyched up and gets his hopes up.

I like to think that he comes back home and it just has like a

very subtle nuance thing of like him

like essentially closing the chapter on this.

Like if it happens, it happens And then having him like

in the next scene or like in a couple, like a fast forward

where he just has like a cute me cute.

And it's like, oh, did he learn anything from revisiting

those relationships and just like throwing a different type of question

out there of like, did, does Don have the ability to have a treat

character growth at this point?

Or is he just kind of sat in his ways and he was just simply looking for

answers because he was pushed to by Winston.

Maybe he wasn't to Sherry.

Maybe him and Sherry get back together.

And now he has the tools to make that relationship work, even though we don't know why it didn't work.

Because again, this movie ask a lot of questions

and doesn't always give us the answers.

It works.

So, great, guys.

Well, yeah, I think we did it.

I think we'll do a quick wrap up here.

Obviously, we kind of already gave our sort

of final thoughts with that question, but if any other final thoughts come to your mind, so obviously let us know.

Alex, I'll start with you.

Jim Jarmouche is like one of my top favorite directors

up there with David Lynch, Tarantino.

I do feel like,

like going back to it, like the soundtrack is very underrated.

There's There's that Marvin Gaye song, which is I thought was really cool.

There's actually

the lyrics in it.

You listen to the song.

The song is called a I Want You.

And it plays while he's sitting in his living room kind of ruminating about the night.

D the night before he's going to go

on that mission, you know, and it's kind of like

he, but the song is about like, I

want to love you, but I want to love you in the right way.

And he wants I think that.

And I think that's the whole thing.

That's like

the foreshadowing and sort of

like, the tone of like where he wants to go because he just

had Julie Delpi walk out of his life.

So, and he knows that he messed up And he

knows now that he, like the way he's been doing things as

a romantic partner isn't

that hasn't been the right way.

And so like, I think that going on this mission was sort

of a reflection of like all this stuff that was going on.

You know, like, and seeing it's like, and it's almost like

he's going back to see where he went wrong.

And that's where that whole like idea of Don Juan

in a midlife crisis comes into play

And that Marvin Gaye song is like, I want to

love you, but I want to love you in the right way.

It's Don wanting to find

love, but in the right way.

And it sounded like, and I think that, where does that,

where does that, what does it mean to find love in the right way?

Is it like to find his son and be like, like I could love this kid

the right way he that he deserves

to be loved as a father.

Or is it him like finding love

again by finding romantic love?

and doing it the right way and doing it right

by these people, but also to himself

Because like ultimately it's a two-way street and you have to like

fit in your relationships, they have to be

authentic and, you know, communicate well.

And, you know, and I think that he's come to that point in his life

or at least he's starting to get to that point in his life, and so that's,

that those are my final thoughts of like that.

I thought that, you know, Marvin Gaye song was such

a beautiful, like, like bookmark in that whole, his whole journey.

And I, if you, if he watch it again or

listen, go listen to that song, it's a beautiful song.

And it's like, man, it really tells the, like

what's, like what's to come and like maybe what's going on in Don's head.

So and I gave on Letterbox, I gave this

a four out of five.

Nice.

And you can find me at Daily Dare and all the socials.

Go check out

the link treeon there and go check out my Dop.

Thank you for that.

Lisa, any final thoughts?

actually probably go back and rewatch it.

It's funny because when I first started it, it

was a slow start, but I I really think that there was a theme of

you know, we talk about that midlife crisis and we didn't even get to talk about.

He has these like flashback dreams when he goes to

to sleep on the plane and stuff that are sort of in these vivid

colors and they're blips.

And I want to go back and look at what was the importance

of the blips that they showed, you know, and kind of do some mystery work

so that even though we don't find out at the end, I still want to find out.

I want to figure it out because there was a reason that

they put those flashes in.

And I think

it's, you know, as somebody that

is over the hill, essentially

age-wise for myself, it is sort of a reminder that we go back

and we reflect on, you know, did we do this right?

Were we the best parent?

Did we, you know, give that relationship everything

that we should have?

And we start to go back and reflect on things that we've done in life.

Sometimes good, sometimes not good.

And so I think I would, I

think it's actually intrigued me to watch it again and go back and kind

of find those other clues in those dreams, because there was a reason they put them in there.

So I'm still kind of, I have a lot of question marks about it

I would give it a four and a half, just

because I really, again, as an actor looking at him,

just staring into space, there was so much expression, I want to go back and study it.

I want to be able to portray that kind of expression in my face.

I don't have to study.

I live it.

I'll sit up in bed and just stare in a space.

Like, what am I doing with my life?

What is going on?

Well, I have to laugh because I did an audition for something and

no dialogue.

And it was for Red Robin and it was a one

of those where it says, the burger comes out and you say, wow,

without opening your eyes and with a slight expression on your, you know, on the corners of your mouth.

And, you know, you sit in front of the camera and you're like,

I don't know what that means.

I don't know how I'm supposed to express that.

And to watch Bill Murray. wrote commercial, no less.

And yeah, yeah.

And to watch him sit there and do just that was amazing.

I think that was really, it was a cool time period for

me to watch this because I agree. 20 years ago, I don't think I would have paid attention.

I would have been like, eh

So I, I definitely enjoyed it.

I think I'll go back and, uh, and relook at it.

But you can find me at, um, on all the

socials Instagram and everything at red Feathergirl 01.

And I've got all kinds of exciting projects coming out.

And Felina, my big mafia movie, is coming out

in December.

By the way, big missed opportunity for Jim Jarush to not have

all the diner scenes set at a red Robin.

Like that would have really hit, I think.

But not really found in a small town in wherever they filmed this movie.

Chris, any final thoughts?

Where can people find you?

Yeah, I

I think this is such an interesting movie in the

sense of it's going to land so

differently for so many different people even with

those people at different points in their lives, it's a completely

different experience.

And I think that this is a not

in the sense of like a rated R movie, but this is

like a this is an adult movie.

This is a movie for adults.

So this is not meant for like kids., adolescents, young adults.

Like you need to be a full adult to get your mileage out of this movie.

I agree.

And the more experience in life that you have, I feel like that

it adds to it, whether that be trueu lived inexperienced

or if you are a theater ner or film

nerd you get to appreciate so many.

It's like a fine wine.

It truly is.

Like you need to have those.

Thank you for that.

That's wonderful.

The more that

you have, whether it be knowledge or experience, the more you're going to get out of this movie, truly.

And on top of that, there's this additional layer as

well of it's got to be like the right time and mood in place in your life for this movie to hit

If you watching this on like your happiest day

ever and you just want to come home and like continue the

train, this is such a downer of a movie.

Like this is going to stop and halt your whole day.

But if it's like a moody little, like you're

like, I'm confused, I'm feeling very like

going through a lot of stuff.

This movie is like a primetime movie for

that sort of like ambiguous, like I'm just here to just, I don't even know.

Waste away.

And then you watch this and you're like, wow, this is good.

It's dirt.

It's gritty.

It's simple, but nuanced

So on that end, I I think it's like a 4.5.

If you don't have any of that, it's a one.

Like this is a really horrific movie to a lot of people I think.

I could see that.

So I'm going to split the difference.

I'm actually going to give it a 3.5 because like, holy, I think that's where it's at.

We'll find you.

You can find me at Milk Man America everywhere that you can get milk at.

Arnold, we'll do a a really quick final thought, and then, you know, what comes after that?

Hit us with it.

You know, I'm

really, once again, I knew that when talking about

this movie, my rating would go up,

I just couldn't quite pinpoint it, you know?

It's kind of, it's very much, you know, I mentioned about the

wine, that I think that he probably would have had, which

was a Shat of the Pop, which was probably this

Shat of the Pop, 2017.

Nice.

I've been saving it for, you know, a nice dinner.

A special occasion.

Are they a sponsor?

Are they a sponsor, Arnold?

Yeah, Arnold, are they sponsored?

You on that, Arnold.

A. No Free pub.

No free pub.

No.

Aaine Jome.

I'm going to drink one.

No, no pub.

No.

Our people are going to talk to their people, right, Arnold?

They better be sending cases of this to each of us.

Oh, yeah.s for Seattle.

Diego.

I love Palm Springs.

I love Shat at the Pop.

I love Southern roan wines.

They're the type where you when you

pop it and you drink it, you're you're like, ah, this

you know, it's very tight, but I knew that there's more.

If you let it breathe and then you let it open up and

then a lot more more of the nuances come through.

And especially if you, if you, if you share it and

you have other people and you talk about it, like, like this podcast,

like this movie.

We give it it time

You swirl it, let it aerate a little bit more.

You can kind of speed it up. use the little aerator things.

You throw it like your hips?

You're shoulding a smelier, Arnold.

You should have been a smelier, bro.

You swirl that

and swirl the hips, kind of a little bit into wine.

Oh, yeah, interesting.

Around the time that this movie was made in when I really started to get into wine.

Oh, we should do sideways on this movie.

Didn't we do it?

No, we didn't.

We haven't.

No, we fucking Merlot.

We need to do it.

That's such a good movie.

So But anyways, what I'm going to wrap up with like with

with many of the great wines and especially the Shatting

of the pops that I've had, you when you give it time to breathe and

just like this movie, it gets even better.

And it gets even better with food.

But

all of that to say that after talking about this,

last night going to sleep, I was thinking like, mm,

2.5 for me because of how slow it was.

But then I never really thought as we're talking about like,

you know, just like a lot of the really quiet moments.

He really does express a lot just with his face, which is

that's a talent.

And that's hard to do.

And, um, not everybody can do it very well.

He did it very well.

And, um, I feel like,

after this, I'd have to bump it up to a four.

I think, you know, the way how he ended the movie, you know, with the, um

you know, the kid running away..

And then there was a moment as the car passed by and he was driving by.

I just felt that like I felt like, I think I even said it out loud.

I was like like, that's it that's going to be it.

That's it.

And then and then the movie just cuts black.

Then it ended I was like, that was a perfect ending to me

of how, how it just, it just felt like it was right.

Maybe it was also, I was a little bit tired.

And let's talk about that, Arnold.

We even have a whole segment dedicated to.

Arnold.

It's called the Arnold Snooze Ameer..

Ah, there it is, Arnold.

And you shared a picture that Carla took a view with your eyes getting

a dozzy Arnold there from this watch.

Oh, so yeah, well, tell us.

Let's get into it.

What is your snoozeometer ranking?

Well, I give it a

one Z. Wow.

One Z. That's amazing.

I think, you know, for a lot of people, the pace

of the movie is slow.

But like you had mentioned, Chris,

this is an adult, you know, like a grownup movie, not like an x-rated.

Right..

It needs like a 25 plus old male where your brain's fully developed.

I don't know.

Wom, theirs is probably developed when they're 16 or something.

Yeah.

But like, um

you need, um to have really your head on.

So like maybe eat some lion's man or take some lionss man powder.

You mean your lions man.

You're looking at lion's man?

Yeah.

It's a mushroom.

I would totally grab it for the.

No, no, don't get it.

Please.

Please don't.

Please don't.

We can shout out.

No, not.

We're not giving no.

No.

Sorry.

Unless we' standing there some toate bags.

Four Sigmatic is the brand.

Shout out the Four Sigmatic.

When we get some Four Sigmatic stickers.

Hasht.

Maybe I'll shadow.

Four Sigmatic.

Give me some t-shirts.

Maybe a beanie.

Would love it.

But that's not a bad that's not a bad.

There's going to be a ranking?

Yeah, yeah.

There you go.

And it was mostly me, I was tired.

And so, but the thing because of the slowness,

um, that, that was my, my snoozez in meter rating.

Thank you for that.

But always, as always. letterbox.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, letterbox

He said four.

Did you say four?

Yeah, yeah, You didn't say four.

You didn't far.

On a hypothetical letterbox.

The letterbox he never uses.

The The chat is saying like, otherwise.

Oh, yeah, they've been quiet too.

I don' I didn't want to bring them up because

you know, they're talking about like, oh, those are the smoothest legs.

Which legs were better?

The one at the beginning, the one in the airport?

Gosh, man, they're like such

pearls.

That chat is, yeah.

Very spicy chat.

I think so.

I don't talk about them.

Last but not least, you, Adrian, miss your EWO TZ too big.

What's your final thoughts?

Well, thank you for that, Arnold.

So, yeah, I'll just read my letterbox review, which I'm about this movie.

Bill Murray really proved himself as a comedy legend, but this film

shows he could have been as just as successful, if not more so in dramatic roles.

That said, this movie is still genuinely funny.

Jeffrey Wright bookends the story is John's passionate, humorous friend and

who ultimately sets the plot in motion.

There's a fantastic scene in in which Bill tells

him to drop the subject, and the two exchange a side glance that

makes it clear that neither has any intention of it.

It's a small butvated by the excellent

performances from Wright.

I really enjoyed following Don's journey visits

each of his former lovers, trying to determine which one sent

the mysterious letter claiming that he has a son he never knew existed

Each encounter becomes shorter than the last, with

the final visit featuring Tilda Swinton in a r that's

very small memorable, offering the strongest clues about Don's

son without ever providing definitive answers.

The clues are there, but certainly remains elusive.

Then there is a final act where Don returns home, bruised,

black eyed and empty handed, only to cross paths with

a mysterious drifter. who may in fact, be his son, yet

once again the film refuses to offer confirmation

despite hinting heavily at the possibility.

Director Jim Jarmou consistently teases the

audience without ever fulling revololving the mystery.

Instead, he leaves us with lingering questions that invite reflection,

not just about the film's central mystery, but about our own lives and the people who have drifted in and out of them.

I think that's what this story is ultimately about.

Life is messy.

People enter and leave our lives, often without closure

And we are left to live with unanswered questions.

I deeply appreciate how this film embraces everything reality rather than forcing a neat resolution.

Overall, this is a thoughtful, grounded film that lingers

Thanks to Mr. HLP for the Arnold Snza Meter Music

Thanks to all the sponsors of came in, thanks to Arnold tonight as well.

And yeah, any final thoughts from the gang?

No?

Okay.

Just silent moments just like Bill Murray.

Let's all do a brow.

Okay.

Yeah, that's my best brow.

Chris, I love yours.

Yeah.

</div>

</body>

</tt>