We dive into Eyes Wide Shut and explore how Stanley Kubrick crafts a haunting story about marriage, desire, and the hidden world of elite power. Through the lens of Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, we unpack themes of emotional fidelity, sexual obsession, and the blurred line between fantasy and reality in one of cinema’s most mysterious films.
In this episode, we break down Eyes Wide Shut, the final film from legendary director Stanley Kubrick. We explore how this psychological drama blends erotic tension, conspiracy, and philosophical themes into a deeply unsettling look at relationships and power.
We start by examining the film’s central conflict: what happens when emotional intimacy becomes more threatening than physical infidelity? As Dr. Bill Hartford, played by Tom Cruise, spirals after his wife Alice (Nicole Kidman) admits to a sexual fantasy, we discuss how jealousy, insecurity, and ego drive the narrative forward.
From there, we dive into the film’s infamous secret society sequence and what it represents. Is it simply shocking imagery, or a deeper commentary on elite power structures, wealth, and access? We debate how relevant these themes feel today, especially in light of modern conversations about the ultra-wealthy and hidden networks of influence.
We also explore Kubrick’s signature ambiguity. Throughout the episode, we unpack theories around symbolism—like the recurring Christmas imagery, masks, and dreamlike cinematography—and how they reinforce the film’s core idea: that reality and illusion are constantly overlapping.
Another key discussion centers on emotional vs. physical cheating. We reflect on how the film suggests that imagined desire can be just as destructive as real-world actions. Through personal perspectives and relationship insights, we connect Kubrick’s themes to real-life experiences, making the conversation both analytical and relatable.
We also touch on Kubrick’s directing style, his use of psychological pressure on actors, and how that may contribute to the film’s intense performances. Plus, we highlight behind-the-scenes details, including how the film was shot in London to replicate New York and how Kubrick’s attention to detail creates a surreal, almost dreamlike atmosphere.
Ultimately, we ask: what is Eyes Wide Shut really about? Is it a warning about desire? A critique of social structures? Or simply a mirror reflecting our deepest, most uncomfortable truths?
This is a deep, unfiltered discussion about one of the most polarizing and thought-provoking films ever made.
Welcome to the Never Podcast.
The only podcast called Never Seen It That's worth listening to with
us tonight, Mr. Arnie!
The One Man Party, aka.
Arnold Caliggo is here tonight, Mr. Daily Dares, A.k Filipino Grigio, aka.
Alex Calo, the Brothers Calo, Mr. Donny Appleseed, aka.
Donnie Guzman, the Cousins Guzman,
Mr. Ghost Nerd 88, aka.
Justin Holden.
a returned special guest, friend of the show, that Denver girl, Miss Amber Wyatt.
And then there's Me Boots Too big, and tonight we're discussing the 1999
Stanley Kubrick film Eyes Wide Shut
And you know, there
is something very important that we need to do as soon as possible.
What's that?
Vog
After Dr. Bill Hartford's wife, Alice,
admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes
obsessed with having a sexual encounter.
He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one one of
the meanings and quickly discovers that he is in over
his head, starring Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, Sidney Pollock, Mary
Richardson, and also Lei Sobbieski, who kind of disappeared from
the industry, I feel, is in this as well.
Lots of interesting actors in this one.
Amber, this was your movie.
Why did you choose Eyes Wide Shut?
Stanley Kubrick's my favorite director, and this is my favorite of his work
and it's the one that I've done like the most of a deep dive on.
I like the commentary on like marriage and commitment.
And also, I think Nicole Kidman is hot...
Lots of boobies.
That's why I picked it.
Lots of yeah, lots of boobies in this movie.
Yeah, peaked Nicole Kidman, right?
Who here hadn't seen it prior to doing it for the show?
Arnold?
Okay, Arnold.
So I got to get your your quick, you know,
right off the presses take on on this movie, like, tummy, Raw thoughts.
Hit me with it.
It's a hot
take.
Why do you say that?
Base animal instincts aside.
What did you think about this movie?
Ooh.
Base animal.
Ooh.
Right off the bat.
What's like the first scene, like, you see the clothes dropping
and you're like, ooh, booty.
Yeah, definitely a lot of that.
A lot of nudity.
And so, and so, not one to watch about the family
No.
Abs not.
Yeah., man, I thought about Tom
Cruise just seeing him at the Saturn Awards recently and like, who, who, wow.
Man, he still, he still looks good.
There you go.
Crazy movie.
Wow.
Pretty wild.
Yeah.
Hot takes.
What was your perception of what this movie was before you saw it?
Like Eyes white shut, Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman?
What did you think you were getting yourself into?
Well, I did hear from people that it
had a lot of nudity in it and
and that there was a lot, a lot of sexual stuff.
And so I was kind of
prepared, mentally prepared for that.
It wasn't like aora where I had no idea.
And then and then you walked into it and you're like, oh, well, you know, strip club and stuff.
This this kind of did because, you know, like right off the bat, you know, first scene.
but I forgot the question,
but Let me ask a better question, and I'll I'll go around the room.
How relevant is
this movie today with all this stuff that's come out about Epstein Island and all that?
And Amber, I'll start with you, because I think you may have a conspiracy on this, right?
It's super relevant
It's important to say that four days after the
premiere of this film, Stanley Kubrick died under suspicious circumstances
from a heart attack.
Now, why do you think they were suspicious?
What's your head cannon on that?
I just like, you can hear like Judy Garland talking about it.
Like, I think that there has been, like, some, like
aspect of like a
casting couch sort of thing, like in the elite
circles, like sense the beginning of time.
So it's not like, um, you know, it's
not necessarily like tied to music or acting or, or
the entertainment industry.
Like it's these are doctors that have money.
Like, obviously Dr. Ziegler was there at the party.
That was the one, though he didn't remove his mask.
You know, he revealed later that that that was him
The Christmas party,
you know, it's just, this stuff is going on.
This stuff's been going on.
So like now, like we're actually in courtrooms about it.
And like then
he got killed about it.
Like, in my opinion.
So, it's pretty interesting.
It is an interesting theory.
Donnie, what are your thoughts on what
this movie means in the current climate we're in?
I think it definitely resonates with what's going on,
but I don't think that it speaks directly to
like the Epstein thing, right?
But I think he's trying to tell us there's a circle
out there of elites that do these weird things.
Like it's relev.
It's Remember the guy, Rainbow House?
He sold his daughter.
He's mad and then he's pimping around the next day.
That was Lil Sobieski, right?
The daughter.
So he was pimping around, right?
That was pretty clear.
He was pimping around.
Justin, eyes wide shut.
What do you think?
Is this, is there a conspiracy?
How is this relevant to today's climate?
I think that the conspiracy goes a
little bit further as especially with Stanley Kubrick directing certain movies.
Like there's even a conspiracy of Stanley Kubrick
supposedly he was in on the moon landing and things like that.
So like through his films, he's revealing
a little bit more than what he leads on from
just what we're seeing on the themes of these films.
So I think
he revealed some things that are
true when it comes to the elite,
billionaires, millionaires, having like a cult
kind of thing going on.
Same thing with, you know, the movie The Shining,
where, you know, the scene is lined up for the, you know,
the moon landing scene where they're like, oh, this is him
pretty much visualizing, uh,
his involvement with the creation of the moon landing footage.
I'm not one for like these
conspiracies, uh, but it's interesting to kind of dive into
not get yourself lost into the these conspiracies.
But it's it's an interesting take.
When it comes to Eyes wide shut and then there
being like a cult type of environment of just people having sex
pimping out women.'s that's a very
real thing, actually, that, you know, you
guys touched on it a little bit, that people are going to court for things like this.
And yeah, of course.
I think, I think these little hidden
cults where you kind of have to be in the
know of these people and you have to have the money
to afford to be a part of these cults
It's a very real thing about
a bunch of billionaires going out into the middle of the woods and
dancing around a giant fire naked.
I mean, even even like the KKK is kind of like
a small cult-like thing where
they do similar things, but with different intent.
And if you have enough money and you're bored enough,
yeah, that I can see how things like that can come
about or even persist to this day..
This movie is very relevant, extremely relevant.
Yeah.
Alex, what do you think about all that?
So I I remember watching this when it first came out.
Um, I went, I think I went with some friends in the theaters.
And, uh, to be honest, um, the only other
Kubrick film I've seen is, uh, Clock of Orange.
Um, Oh, wait, and The Shining and the Shining.
Those were the only two previous.
I've never been like a huge, I, I like his directing style.
I have I don't consider myself a huge Kuber fan.
I want to like watch more
I didn't know that like Kubrick directed Lolita.
That being said, I do feel that
Kubrick does a lot of art imitating life.
I think he he's the type of artist
who pulls from things he's seen.
And he sees like red, you know, in, you know, from fact.
And
he puts it on into his work.
I I don't know much about him.
I mean, I'm sure that Amber, being a huge Hubrick
fan, divulge more
into what his background is like and the ties to
uh, what he's personally experienced versus
like what he put into his work, especially Eyes wide Shut.
I'm kind of curious as to, um,
any real life stuff he's experienced.
I, like Justin, I don't play.
I used to be into like conspiracy theories and stuff
like that, but it's just one of those things where a lot of conspiracy
theories, they all really, all you really do is they send you down a rabbit
hole with no like full answers
no, like real solutions to
the problems that they oppose.
They like kind of almost
are there to just create more despair.
And for me, I think this is a very
like timely movie in the sense that
like of us watching it and the current state of affairs of what's going on today politically.
I think that it's
probably very revealing of what was actually going on in the real world.
I don't put it
past any sort of billionaire, especially what we've seen with
the Epstein files of like what's been coming out.
And it's very, very telling.
They're saying the quiet part out loud in this film.
Right.
So, yeah, that's
that's what my feelings towards like what's going on today and this film.
Well, I'm glad you bringing up the art imitating life because Kubrick
apparently cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman because of their real-life marriage at the time.
This is like a peak era, right?
This is like when they were like, like everybody was talking about Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman.
Yeah, because every time he marries somebody new, it's national news.
Justin, you had something?
Yeah, like to just kind of double back
just a little bit because we're talking about like Nicole Kidman
and Tom Cruise been in a relationship.
was Wasn't this also during a time where Tom
Cruise was heavily involved in like Scientology as well?
Yeah, actually.
Well, he still is.
He still is.
But yeah, he was always been the grand ambassador for the Church of Scientology.
He know that he was heavily involved until he jumped on Oprah's couch.
He was married to Katie Holmes at that time.
Yeah, that was a famous moment.
I heard something about the fact that
the reason why he jumped into the Scientology
thing was there were rumors coming out that he was
gay and he didn't want to be perceived as that.
And so he..
I think he sued some tabloids for implying that.
Well, I heard.
Okay, here's the thing.
You know, like Scientology, the Church of Scientology is very powerful.
It has a lot of money.
There's, they could do, I've heard they can do something really dangerous things to people right here.
It's scary.
Yeah.
It's scary how much power they have.
But then For me, it's how much religion power has in general.
Yeah.
And like, I heard both the Nicole Kidman marriage
and also the Katie Holmes marriage were like things
to kind of take off the heat from these allegations
or these like suspicions that he was a homosexual.
Yeah.
And
I definitely feel like Nicole Kidman's performance
was inspired somewhat by their actual dynamic in real life.
That monologue in the beginning where she's going off on him stuff, like that's, that was great..
Like, she's not even in the movie as much as he is.
And I feel like she has the most to say about anything.
Yeah.
Wasn't this time where, like, when people were really
kind of critiquing their relationship in general, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The tabloids were going crazy
for his, like any relationship he was in, it was the same way with Katie Holmes later on.
I think it's interesting that because you
bring up that Nicole Kidman is barely in the movie, and that's true.
But the monologue that
she had towards Billy, that was the most impactful scene
in the entirety of the movie, too, because
that's what made him kind of spiral.
because it like cuts to scenes of him imagining her
with this Navy guy sailor guy, whatever.
Bungarian guy from the party that was dancing with her?
No, it's somebody else.
Yeah, it was someone else.
Like because she told the story.
Yeah.
And then they just, and then he was just like throughout the film.
He was just imagining and just completely losing his shit.
But you can tell that like, like even
though like she had the intent to
do these things, she didn't.
And that left a little bit more of a lasting impression on him.
She wanted to hurt him and the goal was achieved.
And you can see that throughout the duration of his downf spir throughout the whole film.
It proves that even a handsome, successful guy like Tom Cruise
can still be insecure about something, so falls out.
AID.
And I'm
yeah, unfortunately, Donnie, you had something?
Yeah, Justin, basically just said what I was going to talk about.
I was just going to say how, like she's
not a part of the movie, you know, physically like that, but in
the very beginning, that, that scene that she had, it's it really sets
up the film for the psychology, the psychology
of it all and the ambiguity of the story, right?
And so it she does play a huge part, even though we don't physically see her in the movie
And I think it sets up the whole theme about
duality too, where you see her as a motherly figure
and then we also get to know her side as,
you know, her desires as an adult, basically.
This monologue you're talking about, was it the part where they smokeed that
really schag grass.er smoking weed.
That's really loosely rolled joint.
Yeah.
That's what almost gave them.
That's what almost got them in the NC-17 was because they were smoking weed in the 90s.
That That's just so not acceptable, man.
Notacceptable.
And yeah, they were smoking the roach and then like that was me, I would have probably have been like.
Yeah, Alex.
This is an interesting thing that
the whole backdrop of the secret society
and the sex cult or whatever it is is basically just
the set dressing for the actual
question of, is emotional fantasy
cheating just as d dangerous, if
not more dangerous, than the actual actual physical, you's.
I think Donald, you
might have like experiences, like some of us who have been in relationships,
who have like had experienced like some sort of infidelity
they, you know, it does.
It's very, this sort of like psychological,
at least for for me, I there was never
any confirmation that there was anything physical,
but just the simple fact that one of my exes
had cheated on me like emotionally, was it
just threw me into this sort of spiral that was almost destructive.
I would even venture to say that.
Even the spiral
pushed forward destruction of the relationship.
Yeah, and it was really interesting the way he had him spiral.
It was the way he shot it was it
had this dreamlike cinematography that was just so brilliant, I think.
And I don't know if you guys know, but like some of the sh.
By the way, this was filmed in London.
It takes place in New York.
It was filmed in London because Stanley Kubrick apparently was afraid of flying.
I don't know.
So he filmed it in London and
the shots of Tom Cruise walking down the streets of what's supposed to be in New York.
That was actually, they did a rear projection thing.
So they had a screen behind him and they did a rear
projection of very strange because it was like one scene.
It was one, yeah, exactly.
It was like one scene.
It was so funny.
It adds to that dreamy atmosphere, that vibe
that that, you know, I think worked really well.
Donnie.
Oh, shit.
I forgot what I was going to say.
It was a question specifically for Amber because I wanted a girl's take on it.
I think it was, what was he going to talk about?
I was going to ask, you know how she she talked that modelologue
and she's like talking to Tom Cruise's character and like she
discloses that fantasy she had.
Do you think that the main reason she did that was
it because he mentioned that he wasn't a jealous person
Like, as a female?
Like, is that like, I feel like that's something that would really happen based
off of my interaction It's a good question in previous relationship relationships.
Because he said, I'm not the jealous type.
And then she was like, oh, okay, well, let me tell you a little story.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think I think maybe she did do with that for that reason, but
also maybe she did it because she was high or something.
But the whole, like, like
film is based on Nietzsche or whatever, the philosophy that like all of have.
Well, I just looked it up and it said it was pronounced in Nietzsche.
Nietzsche?
There's different ways to say it up, I'm sure.
But anyways,
his philosophy that like we all have these animalistic,
like primal behaviors and like sex is one of those.
And like, it doesn't matter like what you do.
Like it doesn't matter if you're married or if you're like,
you know, 16 or something like at a certain point, like you're
feeling those feelings and like, basically what the
philosopher's theory was is that the more often you can give into
those things, like, it's funny that you guys mentioned like being naked
in the woods, like as men, you know, like as you maybe like
Lord of the Flies, it's given like, you know, I'm a boy, I'm a boy Scout.
Like, you know, it's nothing sexual about it, but it's still animalistic in a way.
And it's like, um, that, like the theory
is that the more you give into those animalistic behaviors, the more successful you can become.
And that's why a lot of times like today, like it supposedly
comes full circle because like, all of these people were finding out about are
hugely successful, but like they are oftentimes giving
into those animalistic behaviors, which
sometimes even include like having sex with a child.
Like it's weird shit.
Like, it's not good.
I'm not saying anything's good about it.
This is just what the film was based around.
Yeah.
Arnold, did you guys see that there was a recent, it was just a video on social media.
It was of this father
who, who was taking a video of of
his kid, his son, who, I don't know, he must be like six
or seven or eight eight years old.
But he's like, why did you search that?
But like he had searched like, I guess girls with boobs or something.
Or he searched boobies.
And then, and he's like, like videoing his son.
He's like, he's like, why did you search that?
He's like, search what?
And he's like, why?
He's like, well, because I just love him.
And and then like the dad just started laughing.
And he he's like, love what?
And he's like, that
Like, he's like, what's that?
He's like, puppies, I just love him.
And but he was just, the
title that said, bro was just, bro was brutally honest or Bro was totally honest.
I did see that video..
Just, you know, a little kid.
Yeah.
It's innate.
Like, you know, like, and I felt that I like, liked boobies too, like, which is weird, right?
Like, it's kind of, it's not that common, but it's like, yeah, I felt that way also at a young age
I don't know.
Maybe from, I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, we we are all fed from the breast.
So like maybe we subconsciously know what it is, even I don't know.
I don't know.
But I think this is there are innate things, you know, like
that and you don't really even know where it's coming from.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Alex?
No, I completely agree with like what Arnold and Amber are talking about.
Like, I remember, I didn't know
what, what these reactions were that I was feeling inside.
I just remember, like seeing Batgirl
when she's dressed in that skin tight batgirl suit.
And I'm like, wow, this is she's a she's, I'm attracted to her.
I don't know why.
I'm like this five-year old,
five year old kid, four-y old kid feeling these feelings.
I just, why am I attracted to this?
And they see Ginger on, on Gilligan's Island.
Like, wow.
Like, like it's it's this thing that we all feel.
And the skipper too.
Yeah.
And the skipper too.
Yeah.
I was more of a Gilligan.
Yeah.
But.
Yeah, he's more of a bottom.
Yeah.
You don't know about Gilligan.
Come on.
He may look like the bottom, but..
Yeah, I was more the millionaires.
You like Lovey?
You like Lovey?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have a serious question asked about the movie that I really am dying to know what you guys think.
Why couldn't Tom Cruise's character bring himself to cheat on his wife?
And Amber, I'll start with you.
Like, what do you think it was behind that decision?
Well, he said, I happened to be in love with you.
I think he really was, like, in love with her although.
But he was contemplating doing it throughout the movie.
Because you, we all have innate animalistic behaviors
in us, even if you are really in love, like it's going to cross your mind at least, you know?
It's like it's not a good thing, but it's just the way it is.
It's not a good thing.
It's not a bad thing.
And that's like what this is a narrative on, you know?
And I thought it was interesting on that tip,
how he had so much self-cont control around that, but then like zero
self-control around like not inquiring about the fucking house again.
Like, he could not, he could not not worry about
it and do his all investigation that
ultimately like put his family in danger.
But he loved her.
You know what I'm saying?
It's kind of like, it's kind of like if you loved her, you wouldn't
have went to the house, dude, like and got the envelope.
It's just like things are very complicated.
Like life is very complicated.
Like you have curiosity, you have animalistic, like
sexual, like desires, like like you
have these things, but then we have like reality.
And then that's kind of like, you know, I love this person.
I respect this person.
I don't want to disappoint this person.
I don't want to put my family in danger.
But then like you're still like actively doing it.
Right.
That's a good point.
That's a good point.
Justin.
It was also like very egged on and antagonized about the whole thing.
Like that monologue really fucked him up.
and he was kind of like on this journey to
kind of like prove her wrong almost.
He couldn't quite get himself to do it because, well, certain situations
came up or he just couldn't feel like he could do it. in that moment.
And there's no doubt that he loved her
a lot, but she also kind of did herself a disservice
by antagonizing him in that way too.
Right.
Alex, I think it's interesting to this discussion about Nietzsche.
I think it's interesting that he kind of, all circles
back to our animalistic behaviors,
yet there's also the science of evolution.
And evolution isn't just like our body parts
and like our technology, but it's also our emotional evolution
And you even see in that film, and I know this is like a fiction, but they talk about this.
It's I can't remember the something fire.
What's it's about the cavemen?
Gallegory of the Cave by Plato.
Is that what you're talking about?
Possibly.
But there was this one film where they showed the cavemen
This one caveman had found a mate, and then they had evolved
in sexual encounters during the primal
days, they would just do it like the same way that dogs would do it, you know, from behind and everything.
But there was this evolution of like love
where like when you, when they would like mate,
they turned around and they would see, look each other in the eyes.
And that was like an emotional evolution.
And I think that that goes into the emotional
evolution of like why we tend to
like, even if we get hurt by a
partner when they say something and we want to do the these bad things
to like prove them wrong, like what Tom Cruise was trying to
do, yet he held back from doing these things.
Like in, for instance, that phone call when he goes to that with that hooker in the
to her apartment and then they are about to do it,
he gets the phone call and then he has a change of heart because, you know, he's talking to his wife.
Part of emotional evolution.
It's not to say he didn't want to deal with her.
Like he, I'm sure he still had that desire to, you
know, have sex with the prostitute.
he still had that emotional evolution that that still
running through him that like, I need to like be like
respect and honorable towards my wife.
And it's also, if you think about it too, it's like, it was kind of a cool situation.
I think I remember, later on in the movie, he
he gets that newspaper and he pulls it out and he's and on the front page, it says, Lucky to be alive
And it's, like, right after he finds out about, you
know, the prostitute having getting AID, like testing positive for AID.
So I think that was like an interesting situation.
Well, as you can see, we're at the 30 minute mark, so Arld's going to get his hip shaking in.
But, Donnie, I want to hear from you now.
Why do you think Tom Cruise couldn't bring himself to cheat?
Do you have
a theory on this?
I'm looking at it from a relationship standpoint, right?
So they're dynamic.
He's obviously, she's more passiveive, right?
So he's he feels like he's in control.
He's the breadwinner.
He's He's just completely thrown off guard.
And
just completely messes him up, right?
Like what we were talking about.
And so I think that when he goes out and he
tries or attempts to like do things, he
wants to kind of, in a way, get even or like kind of
have that experience himself because he's never, it's never even crossed his mind.
And he just, you know, now that she's shared that, he wants
a story to share with her too in a way.
And,
but he really loves her. like everybody mentioned.
And so he can't get himself to do it.
I think, I think there's a turning point in the movie where he
would have went through with it if the opportunity had presented itself in the correct manner, right?
Like when he went back to that to the house, Domino's house
in Domino, he finds out Domino had HIV, like he was
about to probably sleep with her roommate, right?
And then she shared that news with him.
And so he kind of threw him off again.
But
yeah, I just, I think it was just like, he was just so caught off guard.
He wasn't, he wasn't used to feeling so vulnerable
because prior to that, he felt that the relationship was perfect.
He had the perfect relationship and he was almost invincible in
regards to like the position that he had in the relationship
Justin?
I'm going to touch on this just a little bit.
It's going to go off topic a little bit.
But I think in my opinion, and it's something that
I, what I think was kind of like a background thing that was
going on throughout the duration of the movie.
And I feel like I I didn't do any research on it.
I'm just going off of a guess if any of you know the symbolism behind it.
Better than I do, let me know.
But based on what I see in and I feel
you notice Billy's character, he,
he's going out on a night walk after obviously having that argument with his wife.
But one thing that you notice in the background in almost in nearly every scene
especially when he goes into someone's house or
goes into a place where he's, about to,
I guess, get himself into trouble if he like pursues these things.
If you notice in the background, there's always a Christmas tree that appears.
And it's always the same kind of tree.
I think, I think the only, and I think Donnie, because Donnie and I,
um, me and Donnie and Jess all watched it together last night, but
Donnie noticed that the tree that, that Billy
has in his house is a little bit nicer
than the other trees that are at everybody, even
even the colt house, like they have a Christmas tree.
It's the same Christmas tree with the same like
toned lights everywhere he goes.
And my theory behind that
is like another reason why he's
not pursuing these things things is,
the Christmas tree resembles his family in a way.
And then it's always in the back of his mind, is that his
family's always there, even though he's like doing these things,
there's always that Christmas tree that is kind of sort of a little reminder
that he has a family.
And that's my theory on the Christmas tree side, I think..
Actually, they say the Christmas tree represents religion and
the social construct of religion would keep you from going and being animalistic.
I mean, so more or less, more or less,
I'm right, but in a different in a different way.
I did notice the Christmas trees.
I don't like to put religion in anything I say, just saying.
Yeah.
He really went ham with the Christmas lights throughout the movie and it looked beautiful
But I'm glad you say that, Justin, because that adds a lot more meaning to it.
And I want to get into it and we'll get into a little bit why he or
what the Christmas setting kind of means as well for the story, Amber.
Did you have more Dad, by the way?
You had your hand up?
Just like, I just watched you guys, like, come to like, what I was trying to say the whole time.
Like, it started with Justin, I mean, it started with Alex and went to Justin, but, like, yeah, basically,
that's one of the reasons why he didn't cheat, too.
Could we call this movie a Christmas movie?
Actually, you could, because it starts in a Christmas party, right?
Yeah.
A Christmas sex movie.
Christmas.
We'll have to pair this with Jingle All the way.
Like, that's a family night right there.
Die Hard.
Yeah, Die Hard.
Alex?
One thing I did want to add was it
just kind of's revealing that Nicole Gatan's
character wouldn't have gone through it either with that sailor or with that guy
because she seemed to even be able to be in control
of like her animal like behaviors..
Like she, she stopped herself from going with
that dude at the very beginning of the movie.
So I think she had a very, very, all her stuff is in her head.
And she she knows that she's attractive.
She knows that she could have any of these
things at any given time, right?
But before the fact that she
is wanting wants to be faithful is
a part of that evolutionary thing of relationships,
but also just like her personally of where she stands morally.
Yeah.
Donnie, I want to say I don't necessarily believe this is what was happening or what he was trying to say, but
did you guys, does it cross your mind or did it cross your
mind that possibly Nicole Kidman's
character was a part of that secret society?
I wanted to bring that up.
Because how did the mask isn't at home?
I mean, because if you look at her and you look at everybody there,
they are very similar body types, right?
Same hair, same body type, same look.
you know getting. was there, right?
You know Mandy, the hooker from the first one was there.
Yes, The one that OD' in the beginning of the movie, right?
She was at the movie.
She definitely her tits.
You know those were her tits.
You just couldn't forget them.
They were the same tits.
And in the beginning of the movie where she where she drops her dress
that takes slight practice.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like those girls in that secret society was like, boom, and it just fell to the ground.
Doesn't it just happen like that?
Like, she's done that shit before for sure.
I'm glad you bring that up because like, was it you, who just said right now that how did the mask get back?
Was that you, Amber?
I think that's a good, that's a good question, right?
How did the mask get back home?
Like, I don't know.
There was a big sususs about her character, but I don't know at what point she got involved or she was always involved.
I don't know how that would have worked out logistically, but
it does seem a little suspicious to me.
I've always thought that either of those people came to his
house and brought it and left it because they said, like, we'll fuck with your family.
Like, it's an intimidation tactic
Or, like she was there and she knew everything and
she just brought it and put it back and was like to tell him like, hey, I was there too.
I'm always there.
Damn.
Arnold, were you going to say something earlier?
You had your hand up.
Oh, yeah, I did have it up.
It was kind of.
I was just going to say, did anybody, um, you know, at the
beginning Christmas party when she's dancing with that older guy
And then he's like talking to those two girls.
Well, it was more so Nicole Kidman.
There's one part where it looked like she's like really drunk.
I thought she was going to bar from that dude.
Like, there's she's like, there's just one thing.
I like, like, it's going to.
It's going to come out
And that's a shame, right?
Like she's drunk, they go home, they smoke weed.
Shit's going to come out.
I think that's why I really, that's why they had to make her drink and then smoke
because why else would you bring up a mon monologue about the time you were
fantasizing about having sex with another man?
Alex?
I just think that, though, she probably, if you
think about it, all that stuff was happening at the same time, she probably witnessed Tom Cruise Billy
talking to those two girls.
And he like, in her mind, was getting jealous.
And when she was dancing with that, she's like playing
in her mind, I could flirt with this guy too, because he's flirting with those.
You know, and you, it creates these sort of like inner
dialogues within each other that aren't talking to each other.
But you're just seeing these perceptions of like what's going on
and you, you're creating this like whole other world that isn't there
but it's all existing your mind.
So like, I think with Nicole Kidman, she knew she he was talking
to those girls and like saw how flirtatious the interaction was.
And so in her mind, she's like, well, I'm just going to do the same thing with this guy.
She also waited at the bar for him for like a long time, went to the point where she got drunk.
Like it
I think he was gone for like a few hours.
He was like, meet you at the bar and he never showed up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, he had to tend to the girl upstairs.
It also doesn't help that when she was explaining her
dreams, like later in the film to Bill, that it matched
exactly what he just experienced in real life, right?
So it was like, okay, is that, are you trying to
like, tell me that you were actually there or is just a coincidence and now I'm going even crazier?
That whole opening scene felt like a semi-
role-playing game that they kind of had going on.
I didn't really, they didn't say that, but it felt like, are they kind of role-playing right now?
Like, are they doing this thing where they trying to make the other jealous?
And it almost seemed for like a moment there in the beginning that Tom Cruise
was going to go somewhere with those two chicks that they were flirting with him, right?
Like Bef before he got into,rupted, it almost felt like he was going to go somewhere with them.
I don't know if he would actually have gone all the way, but does anybody have any theories on that?
I mean, it just looked like for sure, like, oh, these chicks are flirting with him.
And then, boom, he gets interrupted and he goes intense to the woman upstairs.
He was cock blocked.
I did think that, for a little bit,
that he was going to go somewhere with them.
But then he legit was like, oh, no,
it seemed like sincere that
he's like, just where are we going, ladies?
That's true.
Yeah, I can't say that.
That came off like very
dweeby.
They asked Dee.
They said, don't you want to go to Wonderland or something like that?
And he was like, I don't think
he said that no, but he was given like, nah.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Alex?
I think one important thing to consider
is the fact that we kind of
are creating our own little conspiracy theories in the own discussion.
So, like, like, we see certain
things and we create these lines and stuff like that.
Like when in reality, like, what Donald says, it's duality.
The duality of, like
possibly, she doesn't ever want to cheat on, but
there is a possibility that she does.
The reality is, is you can't we can't really fully know.
That's the reality.
Yeah.
But some stuff we do know from the textbooks and stuff.
See, but those are like scholarly things and
we'd have to like, kind of like do our own dealt digging.
It's like a Cubric himself.
It's like from what he wanted it to be.
Yeah.
But when you're presenting an art piece of art, you're not going
to like present a piece of art with a textbook.
Nobody gives like a manual, a
manual too. unless you're playing a video game.
And I don't even think that video games they do that anymore.
unless you're like given a manual with the piece of art, you're
not going to walk into a movie and have a guide.
It' Those guides are more for like the fans like you.
You know You're like invested in this piece of art and you want to to learn more.
And I do want to get into that a little bit, Amber, but Donnie, you had something to say?
Yeah, I was just going to comment what we were just talking about.
I think throughout the movie, Bill proves himself to be
faithful right?
There was numerous situations where he encountered someone
coming on to him and he declined declined it numerous times.
And I think that's setting us up to
understand his character more, that, hey, look, I'm committed to my wife, even though I have women hit on me all day, right?
Second, Amber mentioned what I think Arnold mentioned what the two women were saying
They said, follow us us to the end of the rainbow,
which was a reoccurring theme throughout the movie.
Right?
And so like, if you look at the rainbow, the rainbow, the name of the store is rainbow.
It comes up numerous times.
But the rainbow represents like a shift of from
the real world to like a fantasy land of sorts, right.
And so I think that's important to note as well because they were
basically, those girls were trying to introduce them to that lifestyle.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Justin.
You know, the thing about Stanley Kubrick, and I'll make
this like really quick, but the thing about Stanley Kubrick's films is
a lot of the times he gives you just
enough info for you to kind of, I
guess, the situation yourself.
And in every movie I've seen him do, he has like those
things that are just like little quips
of like, oh, here's a scene here. and you
can make your best guess on what I' what I mean by this.
So I feel like what Alex is talking about that we're
creating our own like theories about what's actually happening.
Well, if you notice in that scene when he is with the two girls
is that it's just a very quick, a very quick scene.
And we don't really know too much of the context that happened like
during prior or even after.
We just know that maybe these two girls are
like come to these parties and they just attach
to the rich man that walks their path
Who knows what these two girls' intent is in that moment of time?
But we're only given so little in such a short amount
of time, and it makes us like
theorize what is actually happening.
But Stanley Kubrick is very known for doing things like that in all of his films.
Very attention to detail heavy.
Amber and then Alex, Amber, tell me really quick, what
insight would you say you gained from the books for this movie?
Just like where the narrative is drawn from, like it's
for this one, it's primarily
that Nietsche philosopher or whatever.
And like, it's around nihilism.
It's around like animalistic behaviors, like how
religion, like is a social construct that makes us
behave and not be as animalistic as we truly are and
stuff like that.
There's a chapter on Lolita.
It's like basically on multiple books.
So there's just like, this guy, James Nirmore
that writes these books, it calls himself a Stanley Kubrick scholar.
Like he's like a film professor in Illinois.
and like, he like, was his buddy.
Like he was friends with him.
He's like in his 80s now.
So like they had, they had those like in-depth conversations about it and stuff.
So, and I don't think, I don't think
I know what you mean, but I think Kubrick always went into
work like that with a book in mind or with a philosophy
in mind or with a theory in mind and then created like
an art piece to illustrate that.
Because he was just brilliant.
So I don't, I think maybe some people don't
go into making a film or producing a film with something like that in mind.
I don't know.
I don't make films.
I'll just do stuff for money.
Like, I just do marketing videos
But I think he did for sure.
Like, and of course, he told his friend about that. 2001,
for example, he wrote that script as the writer, Arthur C.
Clarke, was writing the book.
They were literally going back and forth, exchanging notes
and talking about what to include and what Kubrick
wanted to take from the manuscript to adapt into the movie and stuff.
It was really interesting, his process just for that movie alone.
Like you said, that's why he was a master.
Like he was a deep thinker. on this stuff.
There's something else that I learned too, that hold on.
I think Justin might be interested in
Something about Stanley Kubrick's personal life is
that he was raised Jewish and
then he later, his first wife that he got married
to in 1958 was German. then like
Hubrick by like many of his family members and like friends
that he grew up with was considered like a traitor because it was 1958.
It wasn't that long after, you know what I mean?
And so he and his wife both
like publicly announced themselves as agnostic
and like denounced like both of their religions.
There's a lot with that too.
Like it goes back to World War I and stuff.
But yeah, basically like he, he didn't want to be affiliated with religion either.
So with him making this film too and having like those
motifs of like religion being a social construct is like so
like relevant too when you know like that about his
personal life because it's just like this religion was like telling him like he can't love like his wife.
Like or like this the person I fell in love with, man.
Like, I can't help it.
Like, so I think that was kind of important and interesting too.
Yeah, Alex?
I not disagreeing that like
Kubrick didn't or did have any
intention of writing companion literature.
That's not a hearing that are there for me.
I'm personally the type of person who, like David Lynch
said in one of his interviews, he's like, whatever you take from a film, that's great.
Like whatever, however you interpret something, a piece of art.
That's great because it belongs to you.
It doesn't belong to him.
It It's a meaning that belongs to you.
And I think that's what's the most important thing.
To have this sort of like companion stuff is great, it helps
us understand where the artist thing.
But I personally enjoy
being able to like walk into, like, especially when I first watched this film, like back in 99.
I did fall asleep in the first time I watched it because we wereunched in the theater.
And it's a very slow paced movie.
As much as I've watched a lot of slow paced films
and like had always been interested in that, for some reason
the pacing for this in the theaters was just like, just kind of just knocked me out.
I remember being there with a couple friends and I was just like, did I miss something?
And it kind of like, in all honesty,
I think what, like, even what Donald was saying, it made it
seem, I don't even, I think HLP mentioned it in the chat that
it made me feel that she was all part of that whole,
that religious culture, a sex culture or whatever.
And so in my mind, before I watched it again recently
like just yesterday, I was like, oh, yeah, when was,
when was the part that she shows up in again?
And like, oh, wait, she never shows up in that thing.
But you know, but you think about it again.
It's like, yeah, she could have been in there.
What, almost 30 years later after like, like we've seen him it for the first time.
My opinion of this film, my
interpretation of this film was just far, like way off than from
what it actually was after watching it again.
But yeah, I live with that, like reality of
what I how I interpreted it for so long.
And I was like, oh, I was, I miss a lot of cues in this film because I fell asleep.
I think I find that very interesting, how our mindset
is when we first watch something as two and we watch it now.
Yeah.
He has a crazy shooting style, right?
Like he, it's very high stress.
He puts his actors to psychological games
He talked about it once where he's saying that he
feels like he gets the best performance when he pushes them to the
limits where they feel like they can't handle it anymore.
He's like a he's director.
He's ah.
He does that shit on purpose.
Countless takes hours on end like crazy hours, like back to back.
And then he's a strong believer of ambiguity in his films.
And I think that's like brilliant because not only is he
mind fucking good actors, but he's mindfucking the audience.
Like, what a better way to market your fucking story or
your movie than have people leaving there talking about their interpretation of what women on?
Like, that's crazy.
People are talking about it forever, you know?
There's behind the scenes footage from the set of The Shining where
he's being an asshole to Shelley DuVall.
And part of me wonders if that's by design, right?
Like, he wants that to be filmed.
He wants people to see
the fucking torture that she went through and how I feel like
he's like abusing her, so she'll act like she's being abused.
Right.
Like, and and boy, did she give a great performance in that movie?
Justin?
I mean, you guys literally segued right into what I
was going to ask, but I was going to ask, like, That was by design, by the way.
It was by design.
We've been buying this whole thing just for that moment.
Well, yeah, and that's the thing.
Like, we bring up all these like crazy
tactics that Stanley Kubrick uses for his directing style.
And when it comes to actresses such as Shelly Duval
um, like how much, how much
involvement in the psychological aspect in
acting, is it for like,
how do I say like, how, how real?
I'll say.
And this, again, a question to you, Amber, like, how real
do you think these situations are, especially when filming this movie?
And that's what also brings up like the
fact that maybe Stanley Kubick was
witnessed to things like this.
Like he uses a lot of real situations to,
for as an example for his stories and how
do you see the, I guess, the reflections
between the different movies that
he has and, I guess like the mental health
of, of these actors and actresses.
I think that the actors you are on the same page as him.
I feel like when I see the character Bill, like in Eyes Wide
Shut, I feel like that's how how Kubrick was.
Like when he was realizing that like, this is the reality,
like, like these things that he was like experiencing as he was going through.
because every time Bill's like shocked, he's like, last night, you going to call the police.
Like he's like, you're gonna let your daughter like be with him.
Like he's like appalled
I think that's like an illustration of like how Kubrick was.
I don't know.
It's just another theory, right, but that that's what I'm thinking.
Like, is a theme in all of his films
and he's trying to show us like, think about the title, like Owide
Shut, like nothing is as it seems.
Like that's what it says to me.
Like, my eyes are wide open, but they're wide shut.
Like, I'm not even really seeing everything for what it is
That's like what the, like theme of all his films are.
So, like, I just think it's important because it's such like a significant message.
Like that like the sooner you realize like that
nothing is really as it seems, like in these social constructs,
religion being one of them, one of many that he highlights in
this film specifically and in many of his films, just
like the better off you'll be, like and the safer you'll be
I don't know.
That's what I think.
I don't think he's trying to like, I think he was trying to abuse Shelly Duval.
I don't know why, but, I mean, he got
a good performance out of her, but I don't think he's necessarily trying
to abuse like these actors in this film, like to have
this experience what he has experienced, I think like they know too.
I think that he chose them because like they know too.
I mean, like the guys in Scientology, like, you know, he's seen some things.
Like
I think that's more what happened here.
Donnie?
I think to an extent, he does put himself in his films, right?
Like, this movie is about a lot of things, but one of the
things it's about is is marriage, commitment versus desire.
The dude's been married like three times.
So he had two failed marriages, you know, prior to his third one,
and each of those, the first two didn't last long at all.
The last one was good. lasted like over 40 years, but
so I think there is an element where he puts himself into the
stories that he makes or the movies that he makes.
And also, Eyes Wide Shut to me, I was thinking about it.
It to me, it meant like I'm aware of
things going on, but I'm going to choose to look away and not do anything about it.
Right.
And it kind of
that kind of aligns perfectly with this movie in my, in my, the way I see it, at least.
Yeah.
The other thing I wanted to touch on really quick
was I noticed the parallels between the
party, the Christmas party in the beginning, and how it's this pomp extractvagant,
thing where all these people are all dressed up to the nines and whatnot.
And then you have the secret orgy party and it's like,
they're like a yin and yang type thing.
You know, I thought that was really interesting because the party's, it's bright, it's colorful, it's festive.
And then the orgy party is like dark and mysterious and people are just going ham
I don't know if anyone else knows those parallels, but I thought that was a really interesting,
at least visually and and thematically interesting parallels.
And it's one hour, so here's the part of where Arnold.
I' You're going to do a trick with the ball, Arnold?
What's this about?
But while you do that, Alex, did you have something?
Oh, man.
Oh, he's.
He's going to eat and swivel.
It's got it, yeah.
It's Yeah.
It's like smoking and while taking a walk is kind of counterproductive.
Yeah.
Anyways, so I thought this was an very interesting thing, too.
Like we were talking about the party, how everybody's
dressed in stark, black cloaks, and everything, wearing masks and everything.
The only things you can see are their eyes.
Whereas in the juxtosition, the immediate juxtosition is the piano player.
He's dressed up all in white in his suit,
his tux, and you do see his face, but his eyes are closed.
But he talks about almost explicitly like where
he was able to like sneak a peek of like what was going on.
And he knew the reality of it.
And
he couldn't, but he couldn't talk about it explicitly.
And I thought that found that very interesting where like even somebody
who wasn't part of that circle, like was kind of like
handcuffed to like the the rules of that society,
even though he wasn't part of it, even though he was just
like, for a lack of a better term, just the spectator.
Well, although he was a participant in a way
he was kind of handcuffed to these
rules that this secret society.
And I think that that was that kind of interesting again,
like credit to Donald, the duality of that whole situation.
Do you think they killed him?
Or do you think that Dr. Ziegler was telling the truth they just put him off?
I think I think he's telling the truth.
But here's the thing.
we can believe what we want to believe, right?
We We could say that they killed him.
But we could also say that he believe what he has to say.
They don't show it explicity what happens.
So we have to either trust one word or the other.
It goes back to that thing.
I don't know who said it, but that Kubrick like sort
of leaves things to be open for interpretation, right?
Like you can interpret it
and almost.
I find that one.
I find that all a lot of the best directors leave a lot of ambiguity.
You look at like Trick, you look at David Lynch David Lynch?
David Lynch.
They leave a lot to ambiguity.
I honestly hate it when people do that.
A lot of my favorite artists like leave a lot of things to ambiguity.
Don't explain it to me.
You don't have to hold my hand
to like, for me to appreciate your art.
Let me interpret it the way I want to interpret it.
I like that, too.
Maybe that we, the audience, are blindfolded.
Oh, there you go.
There you go.
HLP said.
He said, what was weird for a piano player,
he cannot see, but he knew what parts of the rituals they were at.
And I was thinking also when he was talking about like, oh, yeah, that he was blindfolded.
I thought he was going to say, but dude.
It smelled like poosi or
he's like, it sounded like they were making mac and cheese.
Well, you got to have food at an orgy.
You right, Arnold?
Yes.
Maybe you could cater one.
You know a lot of rich people.
Maybe you if they hold an orgy one day, you'll be the go-to caterer, my friend.
So I just keep that in mind, Arnold.
Keep that One of our cousins has in.
One of our cousins has an interesting story about some of orgies's.
We'll have to do that.
If you come to Comic-Con, we could ask him about it.
We'll never seen it after D after this.
Donnie, did you have something?
Yeah, I was just going to talk about that orgy scene.
So good good setup.
I was going to say, that's like my favorite scene and not for us why you think.
Yeah, yeah, it's not why you think.
Visually, I think that scene looked amazing.
So so much in fact that I watched the movie last night or rewatched it last night
I laid in bed and I researched how he did that, right?
And it turns out that he spent months conducting research about
orgies and also about how to film it properly because he didn't want that.
He didn't want, he wanted the rating to be what it was, right?
They didn't want to limit their audience.
But he worked with somebody named Ye Snafe, who's an artist,
educator and choreographer, and they just took it to another level.
And I think it just worked visually.
Like it drew you in.
That whole scene, I know it's like an orgy, but that whole thing,
it's it's not about sex, it's not about pleasure.
The whole thing's about power.
Like that whole thing, it's all about power, right?
So I don't know.
I just wanted to throw that out there, that I think that was beautifully shot.
I'm glad you bring that up because I wanted to talk about really quick the ritual, the Romanian.
It's based on Romanian Orthodox
liturgy played backwards so that music hearing is backwards.
And it's it's about, it represents corrupt and holiness, which isvant.
And then it's like Venetian masked balls and a symbolism.
And it's also looks like it's inspired by a famous 1972 Rothschild surrealist ball
which if you don't know who the Rothschilds were, they were like like a powerful family
in the U.S., like turn of the centric, super wealthy and shit, super powerful, basically.
And they had a ball in the 70s that if you look it up, there's like pictures.
Like it looks straight out of this movie
aesthetically.
As a member of the Illuminati, we do know about the Roths Trouts.
Oh, is that is that what your secret chat is, Arnold, this whole time?
Is it the Illuminati chat?
Is that.
Oh, see?
Oh, you're giving it away, Arnold.
Illuminati is aati spelled M-A-U-G-H
T-Y.
I like that, actually.
Illuminati, yeah, good. sold them.
That family that you just mentioned, they sold that mansion to a Scientologist.
I thought that was interesting too. really did.
Of course they did.
That mansion, like where they had the orgy at.
Yeah.
It was sold to Scientologist.
Scientist.
Some Yogi owes it now.
He's not the owner anymore.
He sold it to some like Yogi dude.
Yogi Bear?
One for one of you guys.
Not Yogi Bear Bear,.
Yogi Bear?
No baseball player.
Yogi, a Yogi.
Oh, That's insane, actually.
What were you saying, Justin?
You looked up the pictures, right?
Yeah, I looked at the pictures.
Well, put it in the show notes.
It' one for one.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah.
I think Like I said, this shit exists out there, man.
It really does.
It's real shit.
I mean, just imagine all the stuff that's happening all the time with
the rich people that we don't hear about because they just keep it a really well secret.
a really well secret.
You know what I mean.
Anyway, well, I think we did it, guys.
And and G. I think we did the movie.
Eyes Wide Shut.
That's the movie.
Do we want to, any other thoughts before we start to wrap her up or how are we feeling?
Yeah, no, I got something.
Like, because we were talking about like, um Oies and food and stuff.
What are your guys' go-to orgy food?
Well, mac and cheese, honestly, as long as it's got that
crust on the top, Gummy worms..
The crust on top.
Gummy worms.
I'm blindfolded.
If I'm blindfolded, I don't know what's being stuck in my mouth and as gummy worms.
could be a really large click or a tiny pinnace.
Yeah.
Do you go for the do you like the Satchash Kids gummy worms or the non?
I go for the ner gummy because it's all weird, herpes like.
Oh, that's true, yeah.
I was thinking of DNA strand, but that's works.
I think cheeseburgers work.
Cheeseburgers?
Or sliders because everybody has sliders.
Vertical ham sandwiches.
That's what I like.
Yeah.
Have some ham sandwiches while you're going to.
P.
People in the dark chat.
The secret chat?
They're saying nothing but all Aphrodisiac foods.
So they got like
truffles, pineapple apple, Oh, lobster.
Pineapple's an.
Lobster.
Pineapple's not a aphrodisiac, Arnold.
It makes your supposedly your current taste feeling., close enough.
Close enough., it's all stuff even that's good for for
your sexually, you know, like strawberries and pomegranate juice and wine..
Coconut oil..
Coconut.
Kimchi.
Kimchi.
Garlic red..
I, that're what concern on here.
Sardines
Yeah, we're going to have our interns look into all this.
Fish sauce.
You know what?
Screw up.
We're sending our interns to real or.'s we're, right?
We're going to have report back.
Donnie, did you have something?
Yeah, I was just going to say, did we talk about who we think the person is in the red cloak?
Like, I don't think we something.
I thought it was Ziegler, played by Sid.
I thought it was Ziegler, too.
Yeah, and I't Why did you think it was Ziegler?
Well, because the beginning, he walks in and he's in his fucking over.
What do you call these things that hold your pants up?
fucking over?
No, no, overalls.
Suspenders.
Suspenders?
He's got his suspenders and he's shirtless underneath.
I think he's got a naked woman, his O Dean on in his bathroom, which, by the way, who puts a couch in a bathroom?
I thought that was interesting.
Rich people.
And like rich people.
There you go.
There's always.
A lot of women.
A lot of women.
I've seen a lot of like
like in the office, we were in the show,
The Office, there's a couch in the women's dressroom.
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
Well, that whole thing right away made him super sus to me.
And then the fact that like that whole conversation they had at the very end,
he had him watched and and he he was saw him there at the party and stuff.
And I know that a lot of people said that Ziegler was the guy with that mask
that was kind of like curved up, almost had like horns kind of.
It was kind of a gold mask, if you remember.
They were saying that was Ziegler, but the main
ritual dude, I mean, it didn't sound anything like him, but
I know Ziegler was involved somehow.
He's probably high ranking in that world.
Well, I have a theory on that. part of it
was like kind of like what you talked about, like where he's in the bathroom, right?
Yeah.
That he obviously has the same like
sexual proclivities as like the people in there, right.
And also
he was he was with Mandy and Mandy was a person in the room ritual, right?
So that's another thing.
And then finally, like, remember when they were there and
they were dismissing the women and the guy would use the, like the staff and he would like knock it twice?
Yeah.
If you if you recall, like in the pool scene, he kept doing it but when he was talking
to Bill, he would knock the balls together and he would do the same two taps.
That's.
And so I was just like, oh, that's interesting.
I wonder I don't know if he was doing that on purpose.
But I was like, hey, sounds like the guy hitting the staff.
But I don't know.
Even if he wasn't the main guy, he's still high ranking and he's still part of that.
Oh.
Like he's really deep into that.
With a name like Ziegler, he's got to be.
Yeah.
Careful, my friend.
Alex, you had something?
Uh, yeah, so I think it might be the guy
that was hitting on Tom Cruise's wife.
Oh, the Romanian.
Yeah, the Romania guy.
Because.
Here's the thing.
Here's on.
He didn't get what he wanted from Nicole Kidman.
Yeah.
But he knew, it probably has an idea
that she was married to Tom Cruise, Billy.
And so because he didn't get what he wanted, and he saw Tom Cruise and he kind of had an idea
this was happening.
He's like, well, I'm going to, I couldn't have your wife, so I'm going to take like other things from you.
And the girl that stood up for Tom Cruise and the RG, the girl
that sacrificed herself, was that Mandy, or was that who was that?
Yeah, that's the girl in the, I truly believe that's the girl from the overdose.
Okay, the one that Tom Cruise saved in the beginning.
So that would make sense.
Remember it said in in the newspaper that her name was Amanda
Caron like that Karen or something.
And the girl that she almost slept with in
her apartment, she wasn't involved any other..
Was she?
No.
No, okay.
Okay.
You know that's like three actresses with that one character.
Oh, okay.
Like Mandy, Amanda Kan, that was like Julianne Davis, right?
Oh.
And then when they the person that had the mask on was a different actress, actor.
But it's supposed to be the same character?
I think so, but but it was
played by somebody else because she didn't Julian Davis didn't want to do it.
Felt uncomfortable in the scene.
But then the lady that they had to do it, I forgot her name, she
couldn't pull off an American accent properly or to
to they were from. in the UK, right, right.
Yeah, so they hired another actress to dub her,
and the actress was it's a popular actress.
I can't remember her name.
It's escaping.
Oh, Kate Blanchet.
Oh, okay..
It was her voice with the lady behind the mask.
Kind of weird That's interesting.
Yeah.
I did think that one of the models was one of the women in the circle.
Did anybody else think that?
Well, that's the thing.
That's what I'm confused about is like who was who exactly?
Like Mandy makes sense to be the one that stands up for Tom Cruise's character
at the orgy because he saved her earlier in the night.
But everyone else, yeah, I was kind of drawing a blank as to what was going on there.
But that is interesting that they
recast the character, but it's, but yeah, I don't know.
There's a lot of layers to this.
I mean, did you guys also know, like someone pointed this out on Reddit, I was looking into this
at the shop where he goes to buy the mask in the tuxedo with that fucking shady guy with the daughter
Did you notice like in the background, there's a a shot where you see a
white tux in a black bow tie and it looks exactly like what
the pianist guy wears at the orgy.
So I thought that was an interesting visual connection, if anything.
I don't know if it means anything, but it's an interesting visual connection, to say the least.
So yeah.
HOP wants to know which mask would you want from the orgy?
Do you want to answer that really quick?
Go around the room.
I was just.
The one that goes...
Mine would be the one with the smallest mouth hole so nobody can put anything of them.
I don't
like any of the masks, but I would choose a mask from another movie, and it would be the one from a violent nature.
I would just wear the mask from the mask.
You know what I mean?
I like the one that was the sun.
It had like rays coming off.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That was good horn.
Did you have a mask that you preferred?
It looked kind of creepy.
I mean, it was just weird, but that one that we thought was
the guy that had like the horns.
Oh, that wouldn't look pretty crazy.
I don't know if I would want that, though.
No.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I'd probably choose some Interesting.
You know what Mass stood out to me?
I can't remember what it looked like, but I remember mentioning something to Justin.
But you know how they kept looking at those
two people looking down on him when he was in a circle.
Yeah.
It was that the person on the left, like they had a weird mask and like,
I remember when it first came on screen, I was like, what the fuck?
And it just be creepy.
Wasn't Dan Seggler and his wife?
Wasn't that who I was it was?
Oh, it probably was.
It probably was.
Yeah, but I was just like, that mask looks fucking crazy.
Like, I don't know what it was, but.
The mask I actually liked that was one of my favorites was
when they were like hauling, what's her name, away
after like it was he was revealed that he wasn't really supposed to be there.
Is that with that long, that long
beaky nose mask or whatever, that shit was cool as hell.
Yeah.
That's based on like those masks they would wear during the Great Plague during the Middle Ages, remember?
Because something about the long nose.
Plague masks.
They would still stop it with like a bunch of herbs to
almost like a filter, but then you're reading.
How do you know about this?
Oh, I learned about this from ghost adventures because
they wore they went someplace where
they would wear those masks and
it was supposedly haunted from stuff from those times.
So as a way to
conjure or to provoke the ghosts, they wore the same mass
and they went right to provoking.
And there were some great TV.
And they were provokers.
Were there any evokers there, Arnold?
Provokers?
Would you say prochokers?
Were there any evokers there?
Oh, evokers.
You don't play Minecraft, so you wouldn't get that reference.
Yeah.
Okay, yeah.
Justin would get it.
Justin, you know that reference.
I'm the only one know what you said.
I thought you said it for pro-chokers.
I was like, who's a prochoker?
That was just a terrible reference on my part.
We'll snip that out.
I don't know what a prochoker is.
I don't know what a pro Joker is.
I know what a choker is, but that's from the 90s.
All right, guys, Engal, let's wrap her up now.
This goes to final thoughts, and I'll start with you, Don.
Yeah, I just feel like there's so much symbolism in this
movie and there's so many different layers.
Like, I could watch this over and over again, even though it's like slow paced, I
think it was like wellwritten, awesome thriller, highly recommend it for anybody who who hasn't seen it.
Are we giving a rating?
Is that what we're doing right now?
If you so dare
All right.
I give this a five out of five.
I love, I love this one.
Yeah, I like it more now versus the first time I watched it.
I think I missed a lot of it.
And I had more of an understanding of it this time around.
I kind of want to watch it again just just to see if I can pick up on anything that I missed this last time.
Yeah, great movie.
Nice.
Where can people find you?
Underscore Donnie, Appeed, all one word.
If you want to check out some of my photography, you can check it out on Instagram. 125 photography, all one word.
Nice.
Amber, final thoughts and where can people find you?
It is one of my favorite movies in my top five.
I think everyone should see it.
It's one of those films that you will see something different in every time you watch it.
It's a five out of five for me and you can find me at that Denver girl.
If you want to see some of my videos, that's at Millennial Matrix Media.
Justin, final thoughts.
Where can to go find you?
Yeah, I'm a very big fan of Stanley
Kubick's work, I think, a clockwork Orange is my favorite movie
I really love The Shining.
I think it's a very close, very, very close second.
This one, I will say, out of all of
Stanley Kubick's movies, this one, I've watched probably the least.
But I think after re-watching it, after many,
many years of not seen it, I think I've garnered
more appreciation for this film, especially since I was able to
deep dive with it with you guys.
I think this movie is beautifully shot.
It is very much like dream sequence throughout the whole movie.
It's It's quite sad that this was his last film,
but I still feel like even after all these years, it
still provokes thought and is very relevant with this day and age even today.
Yeah, I'm, I don't really have much more to say about it.
I really like this film.
It was it was a wonderful watch
especially like trying to pick it apart.
There's a lot of stuff you can talk about.
And I'm sure we can talk another hour on a
lot of the things that we've seen in this movie.
I'm going to give this one a four and a half out of five for sure.
You can find me on Letterbox, Ghost Nerd 88.
You can also find me on the socials, Ghost
Nerd 88 or personal profile, Shibs the Zombie on to the next, I guess.
Yes, sir.
Thank you, Justin
Alex, final thoughts on where can people find you?
I have not watched a lot of Kubrick's
work, but this film really wet my appetite
to dive deeper into his catalog.
After seeing this again, after almost 20 years,
I definitely put him in the pantheon of like some of the greatest directors of all time.
I think that he's he's in like, like for me,
like on the same level as like a David Lynch as far
as like the, a lot of the abstract
displaying abstractract to convey a story.
I would say that this feels a little bit more of a
straightforward story in a weird way when I think about like,
in comparison to like his film, A Clockwork Orange, I do think that this is
a really, like, like Justin said, I agree.
Something that she can just dive
into get different things after every viewing.
And I'm really glad that I was able to watch it again.
I don't think that I would have given it a second chance
because I think back then I didn't really think much about it.
I do think a lot of my opinion
was formed on some of the press that
surrounded it when it first came out back in 99.
When you're working in a video store, you're trying to like get sound
bites to give to customers about what you, your opinion are.
And you try to fill you try to like watch as many movies as
possible, but at the same time, it's kind of like, well, you kind of fill in the gaps with like
like reading articles.
And a lot of those, you know, are kind of like
those, a lot of those opinions are pretty dated when you think about it now
because like this has become such a cult classic and very
beloved as the scene with like a lot of like the ratings
that you see on modern day rating
with websites, you know, you go to Letterbox and it's got like a four.
And again, like, like I agree with that sentiment.
I give it a four out of five.
I think it's a brilliant film and I will definitely be watching
it again because it's, it's a very interesting film.
It's a very, very topical of like what's going on today again.
But also within
the world of like relationship, it
speaks a lot about like how we
should approach our feelings towards our relationships
and how it's natural to feel feel like attracted
to people who aren't your partner, right?
It's not, we're not
like gods, you know, we're human.
We are prone to like finding somebody else attractive.
That's not our partner.
It's not wrong to feel that way.
It kind of
again, like natural animal instinct, but it's
it's the evolved situation of our relationship and how we
our morality, how we are able to help maintain
these healthy relationships with the people that we love.
And so yeah, again, I go to a four out
of five and you can find me at Daily Dares everywhere.
On socials.
Thank you for that, Alex.
Arnold, let's get your final thoughts and you know what comes after that, my friend.
This definitely isn't just a
nudy, nudy movie about sex.
There's definitely a whole lot into it.
There's a lot
a lot of things that if you don't pay attention.
I mean, just talking about it, I want to rewatch it.
I'm glad that I rented it and it's a 4 48 hour
rental.
So I'm probably going to re-watch it again because it's the
last time I felt like I had this sort of feeling with the movie was like with the Matrix.
I watched The Matrix probably like, I don't know, a hundred times.
And they keep on like getting a
little, getting deeper, thinking,
I guess different conspiracies or a different, like just
thinking deeper into the different things of the movie.
And I really want to
rewatch it again.
Such a good movie.
There was a couple of things that I did want to chat's wild.
They're like, Definitely, definitely
a movie from way back.
Ain't no BBLs up in there.
Ha ha.
Wow, that's no wonder why it's a hidden chat.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I do have to say that, like, I don't know
back then, maybe that was one,
a popular thing or something that people liked.
You know, they didn't like big booties.
Like, I guess, I guess it's a thing now.
I won't read this other thing that that they said.
That's where NSAP After Dark.
Yeah, yeah.
I think someone in the live chat mentioned that we'll talk about that later.
That's where our Paton members.
For a movie from 1999, really
is a movie that resonates
and is relevant with things going on now.
It just shows that even though
you know, it's from a long time ago, there's
a lot of similarity things are still the same, even though it's from a long time ago.
And I really love this movie.
I'm going to watch it again.
I
I give it.
People in the chat, they're saying like eight, no, no way.
That's one of the things.
It is a no way.
It's a perfect five.
It's maybe a 4.69 because no booties.
And I'd have to agree with that.
But the letterbox, they don't do 4.69
So I guess it would round down a 4 I wonder why.
I know.
I mean, you've got to be a little bit more precise, I feel.
I feel I feel a 4.69 is proper.
I agree.
Okay.
All right, guys.
Well, we have one final thing left.
Arnold, right?
Are you ready for this, my friend?
I'm actually not ready for this.
So that tells you something about me.
But you know what?
What we're talking about here, we're talking talking about the Arnold Sn meter.
There it is.
There it is.
Classic, classic, here.
All right, Arnold, so yeah, tell us.
So
there was nothing in this movie that, like,
at least visually, that put me to sleep other than
the the pace, pacing..
I got a little thrown off there because I saw the
name Pamela Anderson in the chat.
And that is very the body type
of that time.
And that was also one of my childhood crushes.
Pamela Anderson.
Oh, yeah, yeah, so the pacing was a little bit slow
and that kind of, especially if you start watching at,
you know, late at night, like nine o'clock, like I did last night,
I was like struggling to keep my eyes open.
But, you know, you know, I didn't fall asleep.
I didn't fall asleep.
So zero, Z rating, even, even
late at night.
Oh, that's my bad.
I always do this.
I give it day.
Zero.
Zero.
I mean, that's one hole that you see that they didn't show any in the movie.
One, zero, zero Z rating.
I think they've showed any of the holes.
They probably would have changed the rating.
I' time that drum.
I know.
And now I can't even get the clapping sound effect to play.
That's okay, Arnold.
We got to practice this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's my zero Z.
Z Z's.
You can find me everywhere at Arniego.
You can see some of the food I'm making.
Like this potato here.
Check out this little potato.
Isn't that weird?
Weird looking?
Oh.
It looked like you're eating a rubber duck.
I was going to say the same thing.
It's probably a little kw potato.
Anyways, that's me.
Anyways.
You a PO?
T-Z too big?
What's your final thought?
I'm actually going to upgrade my rating because I already rated
this movie before, but I wanted to just say really quick, quick takeaways.
I think this movie
as everyone here, said, it's not just about sex.
It's about power.
It's about what sex reveals, things like insecurity,
power structures, the fragility of relationships, and how people
choose not to see the uncomfortable truth.
So, you know, those things thematically, I think, are the biggest takeaways from this movie
that I really appreciate.
Honestly, like, of all the Stanley Kubs movies I've seen seen, I've seen most of them.
To me, this is as weak as movie.
But that's relative, right?
Because we're comparing it to the Shiny.
We're comparing it to 2001, the Clockwork Orange, full metal jacket, Doctor.
Strangel, which, if you guys haven't seen, like, that's
the only comedy that Kubrick ever made, and it's brilliant.
So, to me, this is as weak as movie.
But, again, it's all relative because, you know, you're
comparing it to a bunch of other great movies that he made.
Still a great movie to discuss, dissect, and to talk about
That's really all I had as far as that goes.
And I'm going to upgrade my rating right now.
I had originally given it a three and a half.
But after tonight's discussion, I' making that bad boy a four.
And you can find that on Letterbox.
You can find me on Letterbox.
You can find me at Boots Too Big on Letterbox.
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Mr. Big thanks to Mr. Kyle Ma in a burn cycle
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Thanks for listening.
Any final thoughts from the fire department.
Actually, no, I do have a quick final thought.
Really, really quick, Justin, if you have one, let me say mine really quick, but hold on.
Okay.
It's okay to want to have big boobs, even if you're Christy Noam's husband.
That's all I got to say.
No judgment, no judgment.
But yeah, Justin, any final thoughts?
Arnold, you're wrong.
There would definitely BBLs